What are your EP's

[DougH 270]

I thought this would make an interesting thread, and also one that I am curious about.

In ground school at my DZ they teach EP"S one way.

You look at the cutaway, grab cutaway with two hands, look at reserve, pull cutaway, pull reserve.

When ever I practiced it the move was, look... reach... look... pull... pull...

I have thought before that if practiced in some situations a hand on each handle, and then pull pull would be more efficient, unless you have a hard cutaway. The catch is I would have to train my muscle memory all over, and I would have to make sure not to deviate.

So how did you learn, and how did the evolve (lets limit it to 3 rings, and piggy back containers)

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[piisfish 135]

I learnt : look and grab right, look and grab left, peel and punch right, peel and punch left.

In real situation it gave me :
once : look and grab right, look and grab left, peel and punch right, peel and punch left.
and once : pull on the ringsight, open chincup, open chinstrap, ditch hemet, look grand and punch left.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[stratostar 5]

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You look at the cutaway, grab cutaway with two hands, look at reserve, pull cutaway, pull reserve.

That's how I crossed over from shot &1/2's to 3-rings, it's also how I train it to be done. Less wasted time, getting your other hand in play if do have a hard pull force on a cutaway and need to use both hands.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[Andy_Copland 0]

What are the chances of having a hard cut-away if you're not loading a high performance fully eliptical canopy?

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[kallend 1,635]

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You look at the cutaway, grab cutaway with two hands, look at reserve, pull cutaway, pull reserve.

That's how I crossed over from shot &1/2's to 3-rings, it's also how I train it to be done. Less wasted time, getting your other hand in play if do have a hard pull force on a cutaway and need to use both hands.

I was taught one hand on each handle, but on both my real malfunctions I needed to use both hands on the cutaway, and as you say, it wasted a second or so.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[stratostar 5]

50 -50, you never know and when the shit hits the fan and you need to act, is no time to be fucking around! Also ladies for most part don't have as much upper body strength, so I train it that way for everyone for those reasons.

Edited to add,
And I see the Prof, has real life exp. Let's say you do the one hand on each handle, and you have a high pull force on your cutaway and lose your grip, now you have a floating handle and are burning up time, now you have take your eyes off the reserve handle to find the cutaway again, the more shit like this that may happen the more chance panic will set in and you will waste more time or do something stupid, there have been people bounce who spent the last 30 seconds of their life pulling on a leg strap or chest strap.
What if you have a hard pull on the cutaway and get surprised by it and dump your reserve before you intended to, don't think it can happen? You better think again, stress can make level headed people do weird shit

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[Andy_Copland 0]

What about body position? I would of thought it would make you pretty unstable if you really are tugging that thing with both hands.

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[DougH 270]

So your opinion would be that I should stick with my original EP's?

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[Ms.sofaking 0]

I've had this discussion with many people because I was taught the same as you, and I disagree.Keep in mind at 33 jumps I'm no expert.
I have decided for myself I will do this different, putting one hand on each.First of all, I cannot even see my handles (girl reasons)Second, your handles will probably shift after a cutaway.I read an incident of someone going in struggling to find her reserve after she cut.I'm sure they're out there but I have not met someone who had a hard pull or had to clear anything with their other hand.If this were to happen I can always let go of my reserve handle to assist with the cut away, until then I will have one hand on each.And that is how I practice it.

"I'm not sure how it's going to turn out, except I'll die in the end, she said. So what could really go wrong? -----Brian Andreas

[BIGUN 1,061]

I learned using the one hand on either side method.
For awhile, I taught it this way.
I've since moved to teaching the two hands grab cutaway method for two reasons, 1) we can do alot of muscle memory shit, but will a left-handed first time jump actually have that muscle memory or will genetic encoding kick-in, and 2) Had a big student on a large 229 with a lineover. After about three rotations realized he wasn't getting anywhere with one hand so used both. So... why make a future student have to come up with that decision on their own - instead of just incorporating the two-hands on cutaway method into traiing and being done with it.

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[stratostar 5]

Nope, it worked just fine for me when I needed it, stable R deployment.

To the OP yes that is what I'm saying.
and both of you need to read my edited post above.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[kallend 1,635]

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What are the chances of having a hard cut-away if you're not loading a high performance fully eliptical canopy?

I assume you're referring to being in a high G spinning line twist situation. Lots of other reasons, such as the design of the risers, the state of the velcro, if the cables aren't clean, ... I've seen a brand new rig where, on the ground, it took a two handed effort to get the industrial strength velcro unpeeled for the first time.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Andy_Copland 0]

Would you suggest peeling the velcro on a new rig if you havnt already done so?

Edit: Yes i was talking about high g spins

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[Ms.sofaking 0]

I have a brand new rig. Would it be a good idea to peel and unpeel the velcro occasionly?Or would that put uneeded wear and tear on it?

"I'm not sure how it's going to turn out, except I'll die in the end, she said. So what could really go wrong? -----Brian Andreas

[kallend 1,635]

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Would you suggest peeling the velcro on a new rig if you havnt already done so?

Absolutely. I would consider that part of the normal pre-use inspection to make sure that everything is working. I also had a master rigger give mine a once-over.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,635]

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I have a brand new rig. Would it be a good idea to peel and unpeel the velcro occasionly?Or would that put uneeded wear and tear on it?

Well, that gets done every reserve inspect and repack cycle, and lots of riggers recommend cleaning and lubing the cutaway cables monthly, which also requires pulling the handle. Ask your rigger.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Ms.sofaking 0]

Thanks.I didn't even know to ask this.

"I'm not sure how it's going to turn out, except I'll die in the end, she said. So what could really go wrong? -----Brian Andreas

[shropshire 0]

Andy, I peel my velcro as part of my standard gear check EVERY time prior to putting my rig on.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[MagicGuy 0]

Doug, I say, why fix something if it isn't broke. I personally was taught the: grab cutaway with both, look at reserve, pull cutaway and pull reserve method. I have practiced it so many times that it would be a pain in the ass for me to change it.

Go with what you were taught, IMO. I'm sure the method was developed after some real world usage.

Do, however, never let Kevin pack for you EVER again

[Andy9o8 0]

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I read an incident of someone going in struggling to find her reserve after she cut.

Not to re-kindle the RSL debate, but I'd tend to suspect that that jumper's rig wasn't equipped with an RSL. If a rig is equipped with an RSL (as most student rigs are), and if the RSL works as designed (it's not impossible for one to malfunction), it will very probably pull the reserve ripcord pin free of the closing loop faster than the average person can do so manually. It also, in theory, negates any time wasted fumbling for the reserve handle if the harness shifts after cutaway. In low and/or high-spin cutaway situations this can sometimes make a crucial difference.

Some people feel that - despite the fact that you should ALWAYS manually pull your reserve handle and NEVER "rely" on an RSL - that having a rig equipped with an RSL tilts the choice toward the 2-hand-per-handle method.

Having said this, there are some types of jumping, such as CRW, for which an RSL is discouraged.

[Ms.sofaking 0]

I don't want to get into the RSL debate either.I'm new.I have one.As I believe I should.But I no more depend on that as a guarantee than I do my canopy opening in the first place.I plan on a malfunction every jump, if it doesn't happen, great, I get to skip that part of the skydive.
You are correct, in that incident she did not have an RSL.And someday maybe I won't.So I'll keep one hand on each until at some point I learn something that makes me feel different.This whole subject I hear debated as often as the RSL debate.I'm not saying I'm right.It's just what's right for me, at this time.

"I'm not sure how it's going to turn out, except I'll die in the end, she said. So what could really go wrong? -----Brian Andreas

[GravityGirl 0]

>>What are the chances of having a hard cut-away if you're not loading a high performance fully eliptical canopy? <<

Even large docile canopies spin like crazy when you loose half your line set, or blow up a cell or two, or have an offset line over.

At some point back in the day all the cool kids were putting one hand on each handle. So on cutaway #5, I tried it. Brand new rig. Stiff velcro. Caught me by surprize. My hand slipped. I almost hucked my reserve. It was really hard to convince my body to stop what was set in motion and go back to the cutaway again. In a high stress situation, there is little thinking and more acting.

After that, I went back to two hands on each. I've had 8 opportunities to decide that is my favorite.

Also consider that most people are now pulling around 3 - 3.5K. That should be plenty of time to perform that simple little proceedure.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Peace and Blue Skies!
Bonnie ==>Gravity Gear!

[stratostar 5]

*** So on cutaway #5, I tried it. Brand new rig. Stiff velcro. Caught me by surprize. My hand slipped. I almost hucked my reserve. It was really hard to convince my body to stop what was set in motion and go back to the cutaway again. In a high stress situation, there is little thinking and more acting. ***

Ya know, I have said as I posted above, just this type of thing can happen, and some people will always come back with what are the odds of that happening, and here we have a poster with real life EXP. backing up just what I said can happen.

Bonnie, what do you think may have been the out come had you not stopped and did fire the reserve on #5 ? My guess is it may have not been good, then again it is still 50-50 as to the outcome.

So you young jumpers do what you want, but you had better think some of this stuff through a little more, there is a reason you see post from oldtimers, like the Prof's post above, I bet he uses two hands now after learning first hand how shit don't always work as we think it will, I follow the the boy scout motto, "be prepared", expect the worst and hope for the best. I was trained on old school gear and looking at what you were doing was a big part of EP's pulling stuff out of order can and has killed!

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[jarrodh 0]

The Dropzone Manager at my DZ is also a TM and I always see him practicing his EP's on the ground and in the plane with one hand on each handle since you can really cant use both hands on each handle as TM. I wonder if he uses both hands or one on each handle when hes jumping a sport rig.

2 BITS....4 BITS....6 BITS....A DOLLAR!....ALL FOR THE GATORS....STAND UP AND HOLLER!!!!

[NWFlyer 2]

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here we have a poster with real life EXP. backing up just what I said can happen.

Bonnie, what do you think may have been the out come had you not stopped and did fire the reserve on #5 ? My guess is it may have not been good, then again it is still 50-50 as to the outcome.

I'll chime in as another real life example and as someone who did fire the reserve (though I did make a conscious choice to pull silver - it wasn't total muscle memory).

I will use two hands on each handle from now on; I thought one on each would work better for me till I had to try it in real life.

Since that incident, my routine at the start of the jump day now includes peeling the velcro completely off and resetting it securely but lightly. I travel with my rig often and it's a tight fit in the bag I use to carry it on the plane. The velcro gets very smooshed and "set."

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke