I'm Opening At?

[ROK 0]

In the waiting area to get on the plane, we always ascertain the exit order based on the usual. My question is, when someone says that they are opening at a specific altitude, is that the altitude that they are waving off at, or the altitude that they think they will be open.

I've gotten different answers to this question, which alarms me. I've always stated my wave-off altitude. Let's say 3500'. I wave off and I'm usually under a good canopy by 2500'-2600'.

[labrys 0]

In the section of the SIM that gives minimum opening altitudes, opening is defined as "container open" not "wave-off"

Owned by Remi #?

[ROK 0]

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In the section of the SIM that gives minimum opening altitudes, opening is defined as "container open" not "wave-off"

I know the BSR. So what you're telling me is that when you state your opening altitude for exit order, you are not stating your wave-off altitude? Correct?

[PhoenixRising 0]

I always ask someone what altitude they are going to pitch at.

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[labrys 0]

Yes. When someone asks me when I'm going to open, I give them the alti I'm planning to be letting go of my hackey.

Owned by Remi #?

[ROK 0]

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I always ask someone what altitude they are going to pitch at.

I agree. The standard question is "where are you opening at".

What brought this up is I exited after someone that was "opening" 500' lower than me. I looked over while waving off and saw them under an almost full canopy. There was plenty of room due to exit seperation, but it alarmed me. I asked why they opened higher, and was told that they opened exactly where they said they would.

[DougH 270]

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So what you're telling me is that when you state your opening altitude for exit order...

I tell the person when I intend to chuck the hackey.

I ask, but unless they are groups of the same size it doesn't change the exit order. If I am doing a two way belly with some one else, then I am not going to jump in front of the SOS 10 way because they are pulling a little higher.

I like to know, but like you said I don't rely on vertical separation.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[flydude 0]

I usually say it clear. If someone asks when I plan to open, Id either answer "Wave-off at X ft" or "Pull (my PC) at X ft".

IF I ask someone else and get a answer which makes me uncertain of what they mean, I ask them directly if they mean wave-off or where they actually pull.

But Im from Norway, and we usually say something like "When do you pull?", and the answer you get from that is maybe more direct than "Im opening at X ft"

A skydiver's famous last words:
- Hey! Hold my beer, and watch this...!
- If that guy can do it, so can I...!
- In 9 out of 10 this will work out just fine. Don't worry about it...!

[popsjumper 2]

It's always a good idea to ask for clarification if you are unsure. From my experience, people usually mean pitch altitude since actual pack or canopy opening altitude is situational.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[damion75 0]

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What brought this up is I exited after someone that was "opening" 500' lower than me. I looked over while waving off and saw them under an almost full canopy. There was plenty of room due to exit seperation, but it alarmed me. I asked why they opened higher, and was told that they opened exactly where they said they would.

I can see where you are coming from with this, but given the speeds that we are playing with, significant altitude differences are a matter of a second or so. Add to that the difficulty of working out height differences while actually in the sky (500'? or 200'?) small differences like this are easily achieved by different wave off speeds, how fast you go for the hacke, open etc. If you are really curious then compare pro-tracks (if available) but as long as you have the relevant horizontal separation, I wouldn't be too concerned.

***************

Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus.

[mikempb 0]

I see why your confused. When I say Im opening at.. it means I'll BE open at, that present tense of "opening" is throwing you, just ask where do you want to be open at?? Keep in mind nothing is written in stone, I had people open a lot higher than they said, when Im tracking Im not only looking around, and up also where the other group would be and you will be surprised how many times you can see canopies opening in your track.. hope this helps you.

[Mr17Hz 1]

I use these terms:

Break (separate to begin tracking)

Throw or Deploy (initialization of the deployment)

In-The-Saddle (under a fully inflated altitude.)

I actually don't think that I hear anyone use the term "Open" very often at skydive chicago, however I may also just not notice when they do.

I see people with canopies open above me all the time when I'm jumping with groups - my rig takes about 800-900 feet to open every time (ussually when someone sees it they ask me what kind of malfunction it was). It seems most mains ussually take closer to 500-600ft, which means that if everyone deploys at the same time - I'm going to be a few hundred feet lower... That doesn't last long though - I also jump close to a 1:1 wing loading. I've never been concerned about collision at that stage - that's what exit separation and tracking are for.

Matt Christenson

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http://www.RealDropzone.com - A new breed of dropzone manifest software.

[stayhigh 2]

i don't even ask this question anymore,, and i really don't care, unless you are really going to pull at 5000'..

you ask them what they are going to throw at and they will say 3500..they never throw at 3500,,you can't be that precise with pitch time,, 1 sec equals 200 ft roughly.. they always throw out at whenever and whatever time, it is just plain dumb to argue with a person who pitched too low or high... they will always says they pulled at right altidude and you slided over to their air spot....

Bernie Sanders for President 2016

[billvon 2,400]

>What brought this up is I exited after someone that was "opening" 500' lower than me.

A good reminder of why horizontal separation is the only way to guarantee separation; vertical separation often doesn't work.

I don't even discuss the issue any more unless someone is planning to open very high (i.e. above 4500 feet.) Many jumpers break off at a given altitude, track until clear, then open; they don't have a fixed opening altitude. Other jumpers may open by 3500 feet and snivel to 2500 feet. Another jumper may have a cruddy altimeter and think he's opening at 2500 feet, but actually be opening closer to 3500 feet. It's not a very predictable event.

[ROK 0]

I agree.

Horizontal separation is where it's at.

I appreciate everyone's input.

Robert

[thedarkside 0]

I use the term "pins out" so that is the altitude that my main pin is removed from the main closing loop.

"in the saddle" refers to when the parachutist is under a full canopy and has the ability to make evasive manuvers to avoid other parachutists.

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I agree.

Horizontal separation is where it's at.

I appreciate everyone's input.

Robert

exactly, group seperation is most important. Some things to consider. How many of us get our altimeters chambered? How often? Alti's will usually vary about 250-500 ft. not to mention the difference between your wrist mounted alti and an audio in your helmet. Also canopy's take different amount of altitude to open. For example with my x-fire if I am "pins out" at 2000 I won't expect to be in the saddle until around 1300.

These are all things to think about. I hope this helps people to realize how important it is to have proper group and horizontal seperation.

Keep going faster until the joy of speed overcomes the fear of death.