General newbie skydiving questions

[critrgitr 0]

I have been considering getting in to skydiving for several years so I have done a fair amount of research to learn as much as I possibly can. This includes; reading, talking to others in the sport, searching internet forums, watch videos, etc., and I have even done a couple of jumps – static and tandem. I have spent a fair amount of time researching “skydiving accidents” trying to learn if most of the accidents could have been avoided or were they mechanical failures. Obviously if a high percentage were/are mechanical in nature I would not get involved because that means I can not control the outcome.

So, after all this, I would really appreciate some input a couple of issues that I am still wondering about. First, talk to me about the possibilities/statistics of a reserve chute not opening. How many times has this happened? Next, I have read about, and even watched a video of students ending up on their back in freefall (see the video links below) and had difficulty recovering. Any thoughts? Lastly, I really fear an entanglement malfunction. Please talk to me about this issue from any angle – packing, cutting free (is this even remotely possible?), are there certain types/brands/size of chutes that this is more prevalent?

TIA


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-F4PzJmLw7M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kC-CTwe-7dI&mode=related&search=

[OSOK 0]

Ok. Even though I'm not going to answer all your questions, I'll say this: if you're looking this much into the dangers of skydiving, I think it's better off if you don't get into it at all. No matter the number of deaths by human error, equipment malfunctions, etc, skydiving IS dangerous.

Again, IMO, if you're worrying so much now, don't even bother.

EDIT: I'll leave someone with more experience to answer your questions. All I'll say is that I never had a problem going on my back and not being able to recover fairly quickly.

[shropshire 0]

A little harsh but I agree. I think that the OP is over analysing...

Go do a Tandem and you'll either know it's for you or you can be satisfied that you've done one and lived through the experience.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[darkwing 4]

The bad things you are worried about are very rare. So rare that in nearly 35 years of skydiving I have never seen one of them happen.

There are NO endeavors that are perfectly safe. In many activities, you can do everything exactly right, and still die. It is certainly true when you drive your car, and also true when you skydive. It is very rare in both.

I pretty much agree with the above posters--Don't over analyze. Just go to an active DZ, watch a while, and decide if you want to do it.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[Jazzthieve 0]

I have to agree with tho other posters, you are worrying too much and over-analyzing it perhaps jumping isn't something that's ment for you.

[SethInMI 145]

Well I will throw my 2 cents in here as well.

Unlike some of the other posters in this thread, I read in your post that you have already done several jumps, static line and tandem.

I went through the static line program, and my main fear was that I was going to go unstable, pull, get wrapped in my deploying chute and die in a wad of nylon. This fear vanished after my 10 second delay, when I did not go unstable, but instead, like 1,000's of other static line students, I had an normal freefally, deployment, and canopy ride.

I think that this is a common fear for starting skydivers, and it is unlikely to happen. Doing some time in a wind tunnel would probably greatly relieve your fear.

I am sorry I can't give you exact statistics on total reserve malfunctions or entanglement fatalities, but if you do die skydiving, it is much more likely that you die in a landing mistake. Hopefully someone else will give out some better statisitics.

Seth

ps. Fill out your profile! At least put in 2 jumps if that is how many you have done, and where you are located.

It's flare not flair, brakes not breaks, bridle not bridal, "could NOT care less" not "could care less".

[illusioneer 0]

Skydiving is the most awsome thing I have ever done. I have always wanted to be a skydiver...I always will...
I believe skydivers are skydivers from birth. If you know you want to do it, Don't worriy about the risk just jump. If you don't know, jump until you do, then go with it or cutaway

[airtwardo 6]

I can't criticize you for wanting to find out as much information as possible, perhaps using the search function on this site will assist in your quest.

I will add though, there IS something you also need to consider.

As others have stated, skydiving can be dangerous...and as an old buddy that no longer jumps use to say, you have to ask yourself if for YOU, the risk is worth the reward.

For him it no longer was, for me it still is, for you...only time will tell.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[btvr 0]

How long did it take for you to drive a car? Or do you? if you are looking for someone to tell you it will be all ok, It won't happen. There's an old saying... "shut up and jump" Good luck deciding.

[TheSecret 0]

Personally I don't think you'll find any statistic that will make you feel completely safe. There is an element of risk as with all activities in life. Even if the chance of something going wrong is 1 in 10 million, you could still be that 1.

Maybe you should statistically calculate the fun factor instead.

Life is good

[Andy9o8 0]

1. You're still being influenced by the whuffo presumption (an incorrect one) that the most common cause of death in skydiving, and therefore the greatest risk of death, is "the reserve not opening". That's repeatedly reinforced by sloppy and uneducated news media reporting of incidents. The fact is, in civilian skydiving, the most prevalent cause of death is, and always has been, jumper error: loss of altitude awareness and no-pulls (especially in the old days); pulling and/or initiating EPs too low to give you enough time to convert a non-survivable emergency into a survivable one; incorrect execution of (or simple failure to execute) EPs; mid-air collisions; freefall-into-canopy collisions; canopy-to-canopy collisions; and (especially in the past 10-15 years) unsurvivable landing accidents under otherwise "perfectly good parachutes."

Rarely has mere equipment failure, without being combined with some element of jumper error, been a cause of death. Yes, it happens, but extremely rarely. Double malfunctions are extremely rare. Sport skydiving has been around for 50 years now, and the evolution in equipment, attitudes and procedures has been phenomenal. If double malfunctions were as statistically likely to cause injury or death as non-skydivers presumed, the sport by now would probably have evolved to where everyone was wearing 3 parachutes instead of 2. The fact that that hasn't happened over the past 50 years really does speak volumes.

2. In S/L progression, your instructor won't clear you for longer delays if you have stability problems. In AFF, unstable students are common, and the instructors are trained to re-stabilize students when that happens. You are also taught how to right yourself when unstable; in fact, exiting the airplane unstable and gaining stability is part of the AFF progression. Under either program, you won't be cleared to jumpmaster yourself until you've demonstrated the ability to consistently maintain and regain stability in freefall.

3. Your training is designed to help avoid all sorts of malfunctions, and to deal with them as they occur. But there are no certainties in skydiving. It is a very high risk sport where the possibility of death exists on every jump. The only way to eliminate that risk is not to jump.

[Fast 0]

Quote

I have been considering getting in to skydiving for several years so I have done a fair amount of research to learn as much as I possibly can. This includes; reading, talking to others in the sport, searching internet forums, watch videos, etc., and I have even done a couple of jumps – static and tandem. I have spent a fair amount of time researching “skydiving accidents” trying to learn if most of the accidents could have been avoided or were they mechanical failures. Obviously if a high percentage were/are mechanical in nature I would not get involved because that means I can not control the outcome.

So, after all this, I would really appreciate some input a couple of issues that I am still wondering about. First, talk to me about the possibilities/statistics of a reserve chute not opening. How many times has this happened? Next, I have read about, and even watched a video of students ending up on their back in freefall (see the video links below) and had difficulty recovering. Any thoughts? Lastly, I really fear an entanglement malfunction. Please talk to me about this issue from any angle – packing, cutting free (is this even remotely possible?), are there certain types/brands/size of chutes that this is more prevalent?

TIA


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-F4PzJmLw7M

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kC-CTwe-7dI&mode=related&search=

Like others have allready pointed out, skydiving is dangerous. In the beginging everyone is scared that something bad is going to happen and it is going to kill them. Most people are pretty nervous about screwing up and killing themselves. Most people have quite a bit of fear involved. The important thing is that the more you jump the more comfortable you get with it. For the people on here that are posting that are skydivers, they got comfortable with it faster than their fear drove them away from the sport.

The risk was worth the reward.

You are either going to make enough jumps to start accepting that this is dangerous and it is worth doing or your fear of the possible problems is going to keep you from getting to the point where you can accept that level of risk. For some period of time after you start jumping you become more and more willing to accept added risk. Then you see some bad shit happen or experience it first hand and survive. Then you re-evaluate how much risk you are willing to accept. It might change, it might not.

Another thing is that you can't spend so much time worrying about the things that may go wrong that you forget to do all the things that you need so that things go right. If you think that is you, skydiving problably isn't a good sport to take up. If you think you can be confident in the instruction you recieved and your ability to perform as you were instructed to then you have to for forward with that confidence and just jump. Train and practice for when things go right and wrong and just "deal with it."

I don't know you so I wont tell you that you shouldn't jump, but weigh the risks and decide if you have the confidence in yourself to perform as instructed. If you have it and your instructors agree that you have it and you really like skydiving, then stop worrying so much, cause you know how to handle the problems if they do occur.

p.s. There really aren't good statistics on reserve total malfunctions. In all though, it is something that doesn't happen very often. Very rare.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[airtwardo 6]

There really aren't good statistics on reserve total malfunctions. In all though, it is something that doesn't happen very often. Very rare.

Quote

...and usually only once in your career.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[illusioneer 0]

[...and usually only once in your career.
***
Oh yeah, and a warped since of humor is needed too

[billvon 2,400]

> First, talk to me about the possibilities/statistics of a reserve chute not
>opening. How many times has this happened?

I can recall 4-5 instances of true double mals on standard (non-tandem) gear during my time in the sport (16 years.) They are extremely rare and usually involve another factor, such as the reserve being wet or packed incorrectly.

> Next, I have read about, and even watched a video of students ending up
>on their back in freefall (see the video links below) and had difficulty
>recovering. Any thoughts?

Arching always fixes that particular problem. Your instructor will show you how to do that.

>Lastly, I really fear an entanglement malfunction. Please talk to me about
>this issue from any angle – packing, cutting free (is this even remotely
>possible?), are there certain types/brands/size of chutes that this is more
>prevalent?

Pulling stable and giving your PC a good throw (if you use a throwout) are the best ways to prevent this, as is cutting away before deploying your reserve. Again, this is stuff that will be covered in your FJC.

I assume by "cutting free" you mean taking a knife out and hacking away at the lines. This is quite difficult. A friend of mine attempted this a while back - he packed an intentional lineover and tried to cut the offending line after deploying. He was unable to do so, even though he was prepared and knew which line it would be.

Many experienced jumpers still carry knives since they may be useful, and they add little weight to the rig (or risk to the user.) CRW jumpers use them often, since with their larger canopies, higher pull altitudes and constant close-proximity canopy flying entanglements are both more common and easier to fix.

[Melissa76 0]

As a pretty new person to skydiving myself (6 tandems and just passed AFF Cat C) I can identify with all kinds of anxious thoughts. I don't think it's fair for those more experienced to get on their high horse and proclaim "Well, skydiving's not for you." Maybe it is, maybe it isn't, but that's your decision. I will say that AFF may provide a pleasant distraction as your thoughts should shift to what you need to do to pass the level instead of all of the other "what ifs". Also, your confidence will grow as you become more independent. That said, it took me a number of tandems before I felt ready to do AFF so it's a very individual process. If skydiving is something that truly interests you, stick with it. Learning anything new usually involves some anxiety but the payoff can be so worth it!

[Kiki32 1]

As a student with 19 jumps, Ill put in my experience thus far..

When I was first starting out in AFF my deepest fears were of malfunctions and on my first 4 jumps I was paranoid of my canopy not opening properly. In fact, on my FJC I nearly cried between the time I threw the PC and the time it opened completely. Then on my 5th jump I had line twists all the way down to the risers. I always imagined myself in a panic but oddly enough I kept my cool and was able to untwist them (keeping an eye on altitude) in a safe amount of time. That pretty much got rid of most of my malfunction fears.

Now what I do is I look up videos of malfunctions so that I know what to look for and what a cutaway will look like from the jumpers POV. It helps a lot.

With each jump I get less nervous.... it just seems to get better and better.

Poetry don't work on whores.

[airathanas 0]

If you really are concerned, you can always sit through AFF ground school. You are taught how to deal with these sorts of circumstances.

http://3ringnecklace.com/

[OSOK 0]

Just in case you still follow this thread, I suggest this: get started on the AFF program, go through the ground school that you'll have to do before your first jump, and make the jump. After the ground school you'll understand things SOOO much better, and THEN if you make the decision of NOT jumping, it'll be an informed decision.

There!

We'll see ya in the skies :D


EDIT: I posted this without reading what others have said, so it's probably repetitious. Go jump man!

[chuckakers 370]

Quote

First, talk to me about the possibilities/statistics of a reserve chute not opening. How many times has this happened?

Very rare but does happen. Big Steve Hobbs was found half way up his reserve lines after it bag locked. Another former Texas jumper bounced after he blew a bunch of lines on his overloaded reserve.

And then there was the guy that got hit by a bus crossing the street. He should have hailed a cab.

Chuck