Does the Sabre 2 (NOT SABRE 1) have a safety problem on openings?

[firstime 0]

Ditto, same canopy, 190 sabre II soft openings but
off heading most times but I think it's my body position

[hookitt 0]

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Perhaps, but there are other canopies that seem more tolerant of packing errors. Amy's Pilot 140 opens best when trash-packed; when you pack it carefully it actually opens a bit less predictably on-heading.

To compare, I've very neatly flat packed and propacked, trash packed and roll packed my Xaos and it opens about the same each way. I'm not that concerned about heading performance on my skydiving canopy but it usually opens the way I'm pointed no matter how it's packed.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[falxori 0]

with almost 300 jumps on mine, i can't remember any hard openings.
off heading?, yes but less once i pay attention to body position.
end cell closed? used to have, but none lately.

O

"Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero."

[cbain 0]

I put about 350 jumps on a Sabre2 190 at 1.1-1.2. I had a slammer at about jump 320 that hurt for a long time. I was crying when I landed and I didn't jump for almost a month. There were no packing errors that I'm aware of, slider was not stowed, etc. I chalk it up to one of those random happenings that you can't really explain, I don't think it had anything to do with that particular canopy but I was uncomfortable at pull time on every jump I put on it after that although it never slammed me again. I have since moved on to a Firebolt 164.

Christina

[Douva 0]

Forget it, Cbain, it's Chinatown a Sabre.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[Mikki_ZH 0]

My previous canopy (70 jumps) was a sabre 1 loaded 1.17. I had some real rough openings with this canopy, one knocked me unconscious.
I am now jumping a sabre 2 150, loaded 1.32 for (100 jumps) and never had a bad opening.

Michi (#1068)
hsbc/gba/sba
www.swissbaseassociation.ch
www.michibase.ch

[racer42 0]

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After having an opening so hard under a Saber 1 that it blew-out two cells in my canopy, blew-out the stitching between the harness and the back pad of my rig, and melted the sides of the reserve container with the main risers upon extraction, I switched to a Sabre 2. I haven't had a problem since. There were extenuating circumstances to that particular bad Sabre opening (unstable deployment on a beginner skysurfing board), but I just found the Sabre to be too unforgiving. Even properly packed, the Sabre would still smack me about one out of ten openings. The Sabre 2 is a dream. I suggest it to any of my students who ask for a canopy recommendation. It's really a very versatile canopy that almost anyone can enjoy jumping.

Note to self........smack Douva around every ten jumps

L.A.S.T. #24
Co-Founder Biscuit Brothers Freefly Team
Electric Toaster #3
Co-Founder Team Non Sequitor
Co-Founder Team Happy Sock

[lowie 0]

had nothing but soft openings on my Sabre 170 loaded 1:1 but it always opens off heading (sometines wildly) and often with closed end cells.

[Douva 0]

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had nothing but soft openings on my Sabre 170 loaded 1:1 but it always opens off heading (sometines wildly) and often with closed end cells.

Is this a Sabre 1 or Sabre 2? The closed end cells thing is a common Sabre 2 problem.

I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

[Fast 0]

With all the confusion between saber 1 and 2 it makes me nervous to think that people are not paying as much attention as they should be regarding the gear that they are jumping.


Or maybe its just a simple mistake.



Either way, as stated before... I get consistantly off heading openings regardless of how I pack. I think it has a lot more to do with body position than people are willing to admit.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[LiveLifeGoJump 0]

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Either way, as stated before... I get consistantly off heading openings regardless of how I pack. I think it has a lot more to do with body position than people are willing to admit.

Mine IS a Sabre 1 170sqft. and more often than not opened with a dive 90 right (ends cells closed but appeared to be the equal both sides). This has stopped (different container with smaller PC) and now on heading & without the bad end cell closure previously noted.
In my case it was not due to body position and I do not believe the container caused the problem. I believe that the snatch caused by a large PC is the most likely culprit.
Openings were never too hard but were harder than they should have been.

I had allways assumed that it was my packing of my Sabre (no probs packing other ZP canopies including tamdems) and that has not improved either (still puts the fear of God into onlookers).

Get out, Land on a green bit. If you get the pull somewhere in between it would help.

[Unstable 8]

Ya know - When I got my Sabre2 brand new about a year or so ago, it always open softly, but it had the "characteristic" off-heading opening that many people claim a Sabre2 does... Funny thing, as I put more and more jumps on it, it happened less and less frequently. Now I most always have nice on-heading soft openings.. hmmmmm?!?!

=========Shaun ==========

[hookitt 0]

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Funny thing, as I put more and more jumps on it, it happened less and less frequently. Now I most always have nice on-heading soft openings.. hmmmmm?!?!

When I bought my first stiletto it would open off heading really badly then I learned how not to "help" it open.

You're probably a lot more relaxed and now you just let the parachute do what it's designed to do.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[Ncrowe 0]

I got my first hard opening on my Sabre2 170 yesterday, was using a packer so I'll never know what really happened but I pitched at 4500 and I was in the saddle at 4450 heh..at least thats how it felt. The packer was in a hurry trying to get me on the load before so I'm not sure if that played a part or not.......had 1 broken stow on my D-bag but I wouldnt think thats enough to cause line dump etc. So theres not much I can do other than wait until im not sore anymore and jump it again.

"Don't Mess Around With the Guy in Shades- Oh No!!! "

[sundevil777 93]

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had 1 broken stow on my D-bag but I wouldnt think thats enough to cause line dump etc.

I would think that is the most likely reason.

Try pulling your canopy out of the bag in the 'broken stow' condition. How much force does it take?

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Ncrowe 0]

Well I hope that was the reason because its an easy one to fix, i'm not sure how many more of those openings I can handle. But being an obvious new guy , just to make sure i'm clear the broken stow may have allowed the canopy to get out of the D- bag earlyand thus the insta-canopy ?

"Don't Mess Around With the Guy in Shades- Oh No!!! "

[sundevil777 93]

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Well I hope that was the reason because its an easy one to fix, i'm not sure how many more of those openings I can handle. But being an obvious new guy , just to make sure i'm clear the broken stow may have allowed the canopy to get out of the D- bag earlyand thus the insta-canopy ?

Correct, an out-of-sequence opening.

A search of 'tube stows' threads will bring you up to speed on the debate over whether it is better to have a relatively 'weak' or 'strong' locking stow.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[hookitt 0]

I hate to say it but the rubber band probably broke as the lines were being pulled from the rubber band.

There is a lot more weight on those rubberbands as the bag is being lifted from the container. When there is full line stretch to the bag, the lines get pulled out rapidly from the stow. Just because it's broken doesn't mean it broke before the lines were at full extension.

Line dump is when the lines fall out of the stows before line stretch. If the bag remains closed, it's not a problem. If the bag gets stripped off prior to line stretch, that is a problem.

Bag strip is difficult to get. Rubber bands, tube stows, whatever, will keep the bag shut until line stretch. The last 2 stows get the most work out so ripping the lines out of the stows with the added weight of the canopy is usually the cause, not the weight of the canopy snapping the rubber band when the pilot chute tries to decelerate the bag.

I'd chalk it up to bad luck and not rubber bands. If the slider is even an inch down from the stops when it's stuffed into the bag, The canopy will start to spread out and bottom skin inflation will occur at a much more rapid pace than is comfortable.

I tend to believe it is not line dump or bag strip (but it's possible). Bag strip knocks the shit out of you. It's not just quick, it's really quick. Line dump doesn't do a thing. If the canopy is new, and the packer lost control of it a little bit, that's the more likely cause.

Hope that helps.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[sundevil777 93]

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There is a lot more weight on those rubberbands as the bag is being lifted from the container...

I agree, that is why I can't understand your later statement:

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ripping the lines our of the stows with the added weight of the canopy is usually the cause, not the weight of the canopy snapping the rubber band when the pilot chute tries to decelerate the bag.

On what are you you basing this conclusion?

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Ncrowe 0]

Well knock the shit out of me it did, I mean it wasn't a brisk openning, it was instant......I can barely move my neck today and my back is all sort messed up. Again I'm fairly new to the sport and will continue to read your respones thanks

"Don't Mess Around With the Guy in Shades- Oh No!!! "

[hookitt 0]

Out of sequence would suggest the bag opened as the bag was extracted from the container. If the bag went to full extension of the lines then ripped the lines out of the rubberbands causing them to break, that isn't out of sequence.

Hard openings are not usually from rubberbands breaking.

The only really REALLY hard openings I've had can be traced back to losing control of the canopy stuffing it in the bag and not ensuring the slider was in place properly.

I also base that conclusion on watching a whole lot of video footage of parachute openings. Even the hard openings the bag was closed until the lines were at full extension. I've also done extensive amounts of line stowing experiments. Not just one or 2 jumps , but entire jumping seasons.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[billvon 2,400]

>>had 1 broken stow on my D-bag but I wouldnt think thats enough to
>> cause line dump etc.

>I would think that is the most likely reason.

I think it is extremely unlikely that the two are related. "Line dump" is typically not associated with broken rubber bands; it is typically caused by loose elastics or too-small stows that allow the line to 'stay behind' as it were as the bag is lifted off. The force required to break a rubber band is evidence that the line stow was well-retained by the rubber band until it broke. In addition, in any really bad line dump scenario (i.e. the dreaded bag strip) _both_ locking stows have to pull out before line stretch is reached.

There are a great many causes of hard openings, from poorly seated sliders to too-large pilot chutes to inadequate sliders to just plain old random chance. After all, a canopy opening is a chaotic event.

BTW side note to Ncrowe - are you sure the rubber band was intact before you jumped it? Some packers don't bother to change rubber bands when they break.

[mouth 0]

I jump a Sabre2 and find I have consistent off heading spinning openings. I;ve treid different packing methods, different packers, etc and nothing helps...the darn thing has a mind of it's own as far as direction. That said I have only had one brisk opening on it and that was my fault because I opened in a track due to another jumper opening right in front of me. I load mine at 1.06:1 just as an FYI.

--
Hot Mama
At least you know where you stand even if it is in a pile of shit.

[Ncrowe 0]

Bill- Thats a good point actually no I never looked at the D-bag until I got the spanker, he did however change the broken one during the next pack job. Yes I let the same guy pack it again, I'll leave that one to chaos theory. Now if the next one is bad as well I'll use someone else :)

"Don't Mess Around With the Guy in Shades- Oh No!!! "

[ianmdrennan 2]

Lisa,

If memory serves me correctly you said that others have had the same issue on the canopy. You need to send it back to PD, they will take care of you. If your cars not running correctly you don't keep driving it, right?

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team