Body armour

[FrEaK_aCcIdEnT 0]

don't know if this has been brought up or not... but there is motorcycle gear that could be cross developed into skydiving. There are motorcycle jackets that double as a airbag type device. It could be developed to have a emergancy pillow like the cutaway, but obviously in a different location. Here is a promo of one. Thre are a few different manufactures for them. They cost approx. $250-500. But the impact protection it would provide the upper torso under a "slightly" mis-calculated hook turn would be note worthy. Not a guaranteed life save, but worth looking into.

edit: not saying these can be purchased and used in their current form, But the idea can be used to design one specific to swoopers looking for low resistance with a decent amout of protection.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=hYGt3NiD49I&feature=related

Just my personal opinion.

ExPeCt ThE uNeXpEcTeD!
DoNt MiNd ThE tYpOs, Im LaZy On CoRrEcTiOnS!

[DougH 270]

Often people don't realize they are low soon enough to dig out with toggles...

So you want people to realize they are screwed, drop the toggles, and go to some handle on a balloon suit?

If people had this capability it would be better spent on avoiding going low, or reacting properly in the first place.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[FrEaK_aCcIdEnT 0]

who says you have to drop your toggles? Part of the design could be to use a hand mounted squeeze pad "thingy" Kinda like a bite switch. Instead of a cable it could be a small wire that runs along your arm, attatched to the arm using a sleeve type design so the exposed wire is only exposed from the wrist to the palm or what not.

Gotta think outside the box... Like I stated, the idea can be used to design one. Hell, it could be a bite switch that activates the CO2 cartridge. When you are about to hit the ground at a high rate of speed isn't it natural to clinch your teeth...

ExPeCt ThE uNeXpEcTeD!
DoNt MiNd ThE tYpOs, Im LaZy On CoRrEcTiOnS!

[Andy9o8 0]

Hey I know, it could have a motion and proximity sensor on it like a supermarket door, or maybe a laser velocity sensor like the cops use in the speed-traps. That way it would fire automatically. I'll get to work on the design.

[Andy9o8 0]

Oh - and retro-rockets!

[Royd 0]

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don't know if this has been brought up or not... but there is motorcycle gear that could be cross developed into skydiving. There are motorcycle jackets that double as a airbag type device. It could be developed to have a emergancy pillow like the cutaway, but obviously in a different location. Here is a promo of one. Thre are a few different manufactures for them. They cost approx. $250-500. But the impact protection it would provide the upper torso under a "slightly" mis-calculated hook turn would be note worthy. Not a guaranteed life save, but worth looking into.

edit: not saying these can be purchased and used in their current form, But the idea can be used to design one specific to swoopers looking for low resistance with a decent amout of protection.

http://youtube.com/...&feature=related

Just my personal opinion.

Something like that could have saved Superman i.e. Christopher Reeves from breaking his neck.

[Royd 0]

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Hey I know, it could have a motion and proximity sensor on it like a supermarket door, or maybe a laser velocity sensor like the cops use in the speed-traps. That way it would fire automatically. I'll get to work on the design.

That's what I like about skydivers. We're all such a bunch of optomistic thinkers.

[FrEaK_aCcIdEnT 0]

No shit

No need to progress forward in safety. Just let darwin sort things out naturally. You know how skydivers are...

ExPeCt ThE uNeXpEcTeD!
DoNt MiNd ThE tYpOs, Im LaZy On CoRrEcTiOnS!

[DougH 270]

Ok Einstein!!

Since you are so smart not unlike the 100 other new jumpers who have posted about this same exact subject, then why the fawk are you holding up the evolution of skydiving saftey by wasting time posting on the internet????


Quick... get too it. I want to see results. Hundreds of low turners are counting on you.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[happythoughts 0]

There are essentially two types of injuries that I have witnessed. Neck injuries and bone breaks.

There is a "neck halo" support, like the one used under the helmets of football players. I have seen it used by cameraflyers a few times. I think that would be useful in lessening neck injuries.

The last neck injury was a swooper sliding off speed.
The other was someone too deep in the pond and it flipped them.

The last few bone breaks were approaches/impacts greater than 30 degrees. Sometimes the foot was extended in defense and would break before the leg snapped.

Perhaps the neck halo would help, but I can't think of anything that would stop a leg break on a 30 degree impact at 50mph.

[FrEaK_aCcIdEnT 0]

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Ok Einstein!!

Since you are so smart not unlike the 100 other new jumpers who have posted about this same exact subject, then why the fawk are you holding up the evolution of skydiving saftey by wasting time posting on the internet????


Quick... get too it. I want to see results. Hundreds of low turners are counting on you.

Never said I was smart... i know where I stand. I like being the village idiot.

Being closed minded and sticking everyone with less experience than yourself below you isn't going to get anyone anywhere...

I fully understand that the idea of an airbag jacket like the ones I posted about isn't the easy fix. But that doesn't mean that the technology couldnt be designed around what swoopers do. Im not a swooper and Its up for debate whether I will ever get into it. I was mearly giving the information I had to let someone else run with the idea.

You are really quick to tell someone to jump on it and design it. Only because you know that most people are lazy and wont actually do it. I am one of those people. Its not worth my time and money to resolve an internet argument. I have no desire to get into swooping right now so I have no motivation to design, build, test, and impliment it.


Take any/everything I say with a grain of salt. It is/was just an idea.

ExPeCt ThE uNeXpEcTeD!
DoNt MiNd ThE tYpOs, Im LaZy On CoRrEcTiOnS!

[kelpdiver 2]

you really need to consider the dangers of misfires. We already know about AADs firing- not good on final. But at least we could identify how it occurs and plan for it.

But a bite switch operated, instant inflating airbag? Who would wear and depend on such a thing?

Not all errors can be mitigated by gear without making matters worse overall. Sometimes the solution involves fixing the process earlier in the timeline KISS.

[billvon 2,476]

>Part of the design could be to use a hand mounted squeeze pad "thingy"
>Kinda like a bite switch.

If you are about to hit the ground, you will put your hands out to protect yourself; it's quite hard to overcome this instinct. Relying on a jumper to have the right reaction a tenth of a second before he hits isn't really a good idea. (Heck, if you can rely on them to have the right reactions during such situations, you don't need the thing to begin with!)

You'd need an automated way to sense impact. A series of 10 foot poles sticking out from your body, each with an impact sensor on the end, would work. You'd disable them with another switch just before you touched down so they wouldn't fire on every jump. If you forget the system fires and you get turned into an instant Mars lander, but no injury at least.

Alternatively, use six radar altimeters looking in every direction. If rate of closure exceeds say 60fps and you're below 20 feet it fires. (You'd need at _least_ four to cover all the usual approach angles; the other two would allow protection from low cutaways.)

Actually make it 50 feet or so. You'd need 10 foot diameter airbags to make bad impacts survivable.

[crashtested 0]

Maybe you guys could just work on your swooping skills a little more.

... and if noobs like us want to have a disscusion about the use of body armour and whether it could be used, try not being such a bunch of dicks and put down every idea with a know it all attitude... explain why, how, what, where...

For your info i have come off a bike at 100mph plus,, it really hurts, both the original fall and the sliding and the sudden stop on the central reservation.
NO breaks, a lot of bruises.. the impact clothing i was wearing took a lot of the hit, it was shreaded to peices in the slide.. but a walk away none the less.


but hey if you don't want any advice because you have 100 's or 1000's of jumps and know best (bullshit) than thats your call.

You probally complained when the cypress was first discussed

[happythoughts 0]

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Maybe you guys could just work on your swooping skills a little more.

I don't swoop, some people do. They practice, they push the edge, they fail sometimes.

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... and if noobs like us want to have a disscusion about the use of body armour and whether it could be used, try not being such a bunch of dicks and put down every idea with a know it all attitude...

Wow! There are people on this site who have been in the sport for 10, 20, or 30 years doing canopy, container, and equipment design. A lot of the gear that you use was created by someone who posts here.

Do you really believe that no one has considered this before you showed up?

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explain why, how, what, where...

I read the posts above and they have. You complain that experienced people aren't listening. That is a two-way street.

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For your info i have come off a bike at 100mph plus,, it really hurts, both the original fall and the sliding and the sudden stop on the central reservation.
NO breaks, a lot of bruises.. the impact clothing i was wearing took a lot of the hit, it was shreaded to peices in the slide.. but a walk away none the less.

Other people who post here have put a bike down too.
Also, if you stick around the sport for 6-7 years, you'll find that half of your skydiver friends have enough metal in them to build a rifle.

People have been illustrating the differences. Take some time and read the differences in approach and impact. Motorcycle accidents and skydiving impacts are different.

I know about armor, I have seen hard helmets break on impact.

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but hey if you don't want any advice because you have 100 's or 1000's of jumps and know best (bullshit) than thats your call.

I read your posts, I considered the information.
It lacks substance.

I've seen many kinds of skydiving injuries. I base my opinion on skydiving facts/events. How about your personal experiences?
Tell us about femur breaks? Head injuries? Frame strikes? Tib/fib? What have you seen?

People post the same information and you aren't grasping it.

[billvon 2,476]

>try not being such a bunch of dicks and put down every idea with a know
> it all attitude . . .

Hey, I think it might work; I was suggesting some things he could try. As a suggestion, you might get more out of these discussions if you avoid the defensiveness. No one is ragging on you because you're inexperienced - but calling people dicks because they're giving you advice is a good way to get less advice.

[crashtested 0]

I've seen many kinds of skydiving injuries. I base my opinion on skydiving facts/events. How about your personal experiences?
Tell us about femur breaks? Head injuries? Frame strikes? Tib/fib? What have you seen?

i don't have a lot of skydving experiance granted
but a lot of snowboarding during the early days 15 years or more ago there were a lot of injuriesl i have broken L + R tibila and fibula, 1 ulna 2 radius 1 humourous, compact spine injury, and broken a few metecsatlesI also had a masive head injury which caused short term neuro dammage.

Most of these could have been avoided by using correct clothing, of which when i first started there was none, this was becasue everyone laughed off the idea of wearing impact protection and crash helmets as somthing "snowboarders" did not need, was not cool, only noobs fall, etc etc...

impact with trees, and rocks will always batter you but again vital organs are now protected by good gear, spine protection is used to keep us walking. coxis stay intact, helmets are there to stop you being knocked out!! and to stop massive head trauma.

In videos we see of swooping gone wrong, you can see latrel impact onto the spine head and neck.

I'm sure 99% of them walk away, but how about the poor guy left in a wheel chair for the rest of his life, or one of your skydiving buddys with loads of metal in them, its the same crappy attitude that boarders had in snowboarding.
A few countrys still don't require skydivers to wear crash helmets, i know of 3 people who have had a smack around the head during an exit, yet did fine as it afforded some protection.

People post the same information and you aren't grasping it.

[crashtested 0]

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>try not being such a bunch of dicks and put down every idea with a know
> it all attitude . . .

Hey, I think it might work; I was suggesting some things he could try. As a suggestion, you might get more out of these discussions if you avoid the defensiveness. No one is ragging on you because you're inexperienced - but calling people dicks because they're giving you advice is a good way to get less advice.

I disagree!!

Merry christmas though :)

[kschilk 0]

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Hey I know, it could have a motion and proximity sensor on it like a supermarket door, or maybe a laser velocity sensor like the cops use in the speed-traps. That way it would fire automatically. I'll get to work on the design.

Nah....hook it up to a "clapper"!

"T'was ever thus."

[kelpdiver 2]

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For your info i have come off a bike at 100mph plus,, it really hurts, both the original fall and the sliding and the sudden stop on the central reservation.
NO breaks, a lot of bruises.. the impact clothing i was wearing took a lot of the hit, it was shreaded to peices in the slide.. but a walk away none the less.

You didn't have a sudden stop going 100 and then just walk away. Helmets won't deal with impacts at even 30. High speed getoffs are survivable because you only fall a bit and then you slide a long long way on an open road. If race tracks had as many barriers as the trafficked roads do the fatality rate would be much much higher.

[riggerrob 563]

I don't care what anyone says about fashion, safety, impact angles, etc.
I am old and grumpy and made up my mind on this subject 15 years ago. ... and I am not in a mood to learn anything new!
HUMPF!

I wear a Pro-Tec helmet on every jump.
It is covered in scratches to explain why I wear it: door jams, riser slap, etc.

Similarly, I always wear gloves to protect my fingers against riser slap.

Finally my prescription goggles were specifically chosen to survive "loving" students slamming my head into door frames.

And I can still do more tandems per day than most of the "skygods" half my age!
Neener neener neener!

[crashtested 0]

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For your info i have come off a bike at 100mph plus,, it really hurts, both the original fall and the sliding and the sudden stop on the central reservation.
NO breaks, a lot of bruises.. the impact clothing i was wearing took a lot of the hit, it was shreaded to peices in the slide.. but a walk away none the less.

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"You didn't have a sudden stop going 100 and then just walk away"

Sorry i did not know you were there at the time..
Were you the big skeletal figure carrying a large scythe dressed in black, I have'nt seen you in months. good to hear from you.

I did stop pretty quickly maybe 50 - 60 M..
I did just walk away....
I did not break anything....

You know what I don't mind if you wear the gear or not... maybe you don't wear a Helmet whilst skydiving.. maybe you don't wear leathers whilst motorcycling.

The fact of it is, Impact clothing has the clue in the name.. your right at 75mph straight into the ground it won't do a lot, 35mph though it may save you from spliiting your spleen, and in a rough ride across the ground after tripping whilst hammering in it'll save your bits, or act as a handy splint / compression kit untill the paramedics arrive..

[redlegphi 0]

I think his point was that you didn't go from 75mph to nothing in no time flat, like you would do if you impacted the ground during a botched swoop. 50-60m isn't a lot of distance, but it let you bleed off your speed instead of just a sudden stop. A comparable motorcycle incident would be if you were riding your motorcycle at 75 mph and ran it into a wall. I don't think they make practical armor that could save you from that.

[kelpdiver 2]

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"You didn't have a sudden stop going 100 and then just walk away"

Sorry i did not know you were there at the time..

Let's frame this on topic. If proper gear could make it possible to survive sudden impact at 100mph, then Jeb wouldn't need $4M to land his wingsuit without a parachute. His vertical speed is far lower than 100. Smaller women could belly land without even using the wingsuit.

[crashtested 0]

Let's frame this on topic. If proper gear could make it possible to survive sudden impact at 100mph, then Jeb wouldn't need $4M to land his wingsuit without a parachute. His vertical speed is far lower than 100. Smaller women could belly land without even using the wingsuit.