FS or FF?

[stevesimms 0]

Well, ive recently got my A-License, and now have to choose a discipline to follow.

I see the advantages of FS, as well as the quicker route in getting a B license. I completed my AFF in the minimum number of jumps, and the same with my CAT 1's but oddly find it not giving me that same rush. I am no professional and far from CAT 3 status in FS. My instructors recommend that I go the FS way.

However, I did 2 jumps FF, and I loved it. On the first one, I managed a knee sit, and the second a stand up.

For me, its not about getting the B license as quick as possible, but rather having a great deal of fun while learning.

Its a conflicting issue for me, as seeing both the advantages of FS, I enjoyed FF more than anything, considering I only touched a fraction of what is possible.

I guess im looking for some advice on the pro's and con's on going either way...
Is it possible to do FS while still learning FF? or is it better to rather get competent enough in FF before FS? or the other way round?

Thanks in Advance.

Steve

[shropshire 0]

JUst a thought, but do you have to choose?

Do you want to join a team and compete (even in a small way) or just fall with your mates for the fun of it?

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[skybytch 259]

You'll be jumping with more people sooner if you work on your belly skills first. Mix that up with some solo or coached freefly jumps, tracking jumps and hop and pops to play with your canopy. That's plenty to keep you busy for a couple hundred jumps, at which point you'll have some experience in each discipline and more of an idea of which you want to dedicate the majority of your jumps to.

Something to think about - do you want to be an all around good skydiver or do you want to be great in one area?

[stevesimms 0]

Well shropshire,

It came across from my CI that I should choose before I continue, that my solo jumps should be leading to somewhere.

Im not really into the major competition part of FS, and the fun with mates is exactly FF...

Ive also heard though, that FS is the core to going forward in any discipline? How skilled in FS are FF jumpers? and is it worth doing the CAT 3's in FS even if you aim to do FF?

[repcool 2]

I can tell you that I feel like I made a bad choice when I was in about the same place you were. I tried to do FF but would also do belly when the chance came. Pretty much I ended up trying so much I was bad at everything. :-) It was fun, but I kind of started over and stuck to belly and canopy for now with a thought to work on FF in the future. I am actually now on my back in the tunnel.

I often have to convince some of the freefly crew to go belly with me but honestly they always have fun and mention that they forget that belly is fun. Last week on the trailer I had a 3 way together which turned into a 9 way speed star by the time we got loaded....great fun.

[Maxx 1]

If you want to learn FF, then learn RW first.

[freeflyimpaired 0]

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If you want to learn FF, then learn VRW first

Fixed it for you!

I went straight to FF off of student status and never looked back. I could probably count the number of belly jumps I have on two hands. (11) That said there have been plenty of times when I wished that I had ironed out my FS skills a little better. You don't have to commit to a disciple at this stage, just don't turn down an opportunity to go have a fun jump with one of your buds just because you're devoting every jump to getting good at FS. You've come this far, spent god knows how much money, with the hope of having a good time. I say, do whatever the hell you want as your primary concern should be getting your moneys worth. (DZ.com disclaimer: your primary concern should be saftey, followed by paying for coaching, then having fun)

Besides, people that spend to much time on their belly start to have delusions that its actually fun, and/or challenging, and they end up never coming over to the dark side.

"Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so."

[HillerMyLife 0]

Both are fun but FF is a very different style of flying with its own rules and safetly concerns. For starters the higher speeds you achieve WILL result in more radical changes in body position than those at belly speeds.

An example: If a skydiver is flying in a belly to earth orientation and points one leg slightly off center it may result in a medium to slow speed turn with maybe a slight difference in fall rate. Now if you move your leg the same amount in a FF body position you will find that quite a few things are happening(fast turns, great changes in fallrate, etc) most of them very quickly. At your level its unlikely that you are prepared to deal with these changes especially with others on the jump with you.

You also mentioned that you managed to knee fly and standup but did you consider what direction if any you were headed in?? Its quite possible that you were not falling straight towards the ground but rather had some kind of drive(forwards or backwards) associated with your position not to mention some kind of turning issues. If you are getting a 360 degree view of the horizon(not saying you did) then your heading control still needs much work.

All this is said not to discourage you from getting into FF its just that these are issues that newer skydivers usually don't consider because they don't know they have to. Continue seeking new information from those more experienced than you and you will always be heading in the right direction. Be safe, have fun, do good.

Someday Never Comes

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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Well shropshire,

It came across from my CI that I should choose before I continue, that my solo jumps should be leading to somewhere.

Im not really into the major competition part of FS, and the fun with mates is exactly FF...

Eventually you'll want to acomplish something more than just looking at each other in freefall. Regardless of your preferred form of falling (under canopy, with wing suits, belly to earth, head down, head-up, back to earth) that's going to involve flyng really close to other people and taking grips.

Every one on my first four-way free fly formation (4-way round/clown accordion in a circle) had over 500 jumps and at least a couple of us had 750+.

I've made successful 4-way flat jumps where some people had under 50 jumps.

It's a lot easier to master fine movements, approaching a formation, etc. when you aren't going so fast.

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Ive also heard though, that FS is the core to going forward in any discipline?

It's all the same thing. Just the uniform and body position differ.

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How skilled in FS are FF jumpers?

Probably not too good according to competitive metrics. Good enough for 10-point 4-ways, 4-point 8 ways with pieces moving around, and any other sort of fun load you might throw together with random people at the DZ.

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and is it worth doing the CAT 3's in FS even if you aim to do FF?

Flat and stable is the greatest common denominator. There will be plenty of times where not enough experienced free flyers show up, people want to put something together for an x00th jump, the cloud ceiling is low or plane is slow so you'd rather fall at 75% speed, etc.

It'll help you progress in freefly formations too.

[selwynj 0]

PM sent

“It takes ten years to get ten years’ experience” Eric "tonto" Stephenson D515 PASA

[kefran 0]

while you could have fun on some jumps by trying yourself at FF alone, I think you should first learn a reasonably good general skill at RW, being able to track perfectly will help you to find people to jump with in FF later.
get used with the "unstable" tricks (barrel roll, front flip, back flip etc ...) they will be of a great help later to recover from unstable sit-flying situations.
and if you go for FF, remember that getting back on the belly will never be a good solution ... at least until the moment you'll have to track

--------------------------------------------------
I never used 2 rocks to start a fire ... this is called evolution !

[MarkM 0]

Do what you enjoy.

RW was always too much "work" for it to be fun for me. FF was always much more fun, just felt fluid and I especially loved to track. So I did a lot of tracking and ended up in wingsuits which is all I do these days.

[UDSkyJunkie 0]

You do NOT have to choose!

I am an FS guy. Why? It's just more in line with what I like to do... I'm very competitive and 4-way fits my personality. I love the stuff FF guys are doing (especially VRW!) but I had to have either the resources to be very good at one or good enough in both. I chose to be very good at FS, and some day I hope to become more than proficient in FF as well.

If you're more laid back than then me, there's no reason you can't do both, even on a (somewhat) limited budget. Even if you're like me, I suggest trying both and making your decision later.

P.S. Even if you lean in the FF direction, I highly recommend that you aquire at least decent FS skills, and keep them current. This will be immensly helpful if you ever want to get a coach and/or AFF rating. It's also more common for memorial/wedding/100 jump/1000 jump type dives to be FS.

"Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

[rehmwa 2]

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It came across from my CI that I should choose before I continue,

then he's an idiot - you shouldn't have to choose, other than making sure you have at least the beginner basics in RW before moving to backflying-sit-hd progression. I consider the basics to be a bit more than just A license skills.

you can do both - skills in one lends to improvement in both. It's just pushing air. In fact, IMHO - all new skydivers should get to taste several disciplines as they get their skills up to speed - including casual and competitive formats.

I also consider "casual vs competitive" to be a MUCH more significant different than which orientation ones flies in (which is much less important)

(and the true "dark side" is, and always has been, CrW - anyone trying to steal the term for themselves has ego issues )

in the end, we do whatever our friends are doing and also from whoever is willing to invest time in our development

I've been lucky, I've had people from most all disciplines willing to go out and have fun on any dive.


really, what kind of skydiver only does just one thing when there is so much offered?

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[davelepka 4]

How about just have fun?

You only have 29 jumps, how are you supposed to choose one thing or another?

It's your money paying for the jumps and the gear, you do whatever you want with it.

[Butters 0]

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really, what kind of skydiver only does just one thing when there is so much offered?

One that only wants to do just one thing ... Just remember to have fun (by choosing those disciplines you enjoy) and be safe (by knowing and understanding the risks associated with the disciplines you choose).

Edit: To clarify that you can choose more than one discipline.

"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

[rehmwa 2]

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Just remember to have fun (by choosing a those disciplines you enjoy)

my spin in it - you don't know what you're missing when you're too scared to touch the other skydivers or their canopies

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants