My first 2 jumps with a camera.

[sparkie 0]

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being the last person down in the landing I saw no reason to check for traffic as there was none.

As someone once said: "assumption is the mother of all fuckups"

DSE's advice/comments are very valid, look them over.

[Pulse 0]

I don't have any jump numbers for flying camera. I guess I could agree with the 500-jump rule since that would dictate that you've at least put some time into the sport. Then again, I know plenty of people with 500 jumps that shouldn't be flying camera.

My advice is this, keep the cameras off you're head until you can be where you want to be, when you want to be there. This goes for freefall and under canopy. You're right, "Everyone has to start somewhere." But people who juggle knives didn't start with knives. Learn to skydive first. Then accessorize.

The scariest thing about that whole 'kill zone' idea? If you ever get into shooting 4-way teams, those areas you refer to as 'kill zones' suddenly become known as 'where you need to be'.

Weird.

"Any language where the unassuming word fly signifies an annoying insect, a means of travel, and a critical part of a gentleman's apparel is clearly asking to be mangled."

[hackish 8]

I think you guys are lucky to have access to experienced camera guys. I don't think anyone at my DZ who flies cam has 500 jumps. The only one who is willing to share his knowledge was broken all year from a hard opening.

Seriously though, I've been training to do camera jumps for most of the summer. In all of that I think I only actually put the cam helmet on twice. I'm happy to have a background as a photographer and I can say firsthand getting any shot versus a really good one is damn hard.

-Michael

[Gato 0]

It's refreshing to hear about someone taking a step back at the advice of the voices of reason. Good for you, Tunasalad! I have half the jumps you do, but I do know that you're in a position to influence other newbs. Most of the students we get at our DZ, regardless of where they are in their progression, are watching what the A License people are doing and listening to what they say, and some make decisions based on what they have seen and heard. Even at 46 jumps, they are watching you.

If some newer jumper or student comes up and asks you why you aren't jumping with your camera, I think you should tell them exactly why, so they can learn from your example.

One of my friends has been taking one of those little cameras on jumps since early this summer, at about 65 or so jumps. To my knowledge, he hasn't had anything bad happen because of it, but I also have never jumped with him (He's almost never at the DZ when I am). This same guy doesn't know what reserve is in his container. No shit. "I know it's pretty big." Stellar.

I have another friend with less than 200 jumps who is convinced he needs (and WILL buy) a certain elliptical main in the 150 - 135 range, because "Parachutes fly easier when they're smaller." Seriously?

Yeah, I'm having a REALLY rough time flying my 230 around. It hurts when I turn.

Kids today.

T.I.N.S.

[jumpwally 0]

DSE, You are to be commended for "walking the walk and talking the talk " this guy is going to have a rockin' time with you, this is exactly the way skydivers need to treat other skydivers,,all the time ! Thank you...........

smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083

[ladydyver 0]

I agree, it is nice when someone with experience takes some us that are younger in the sport and shows us the rationale behind the recommendations and then give solid advice on how to get to that point.

DPH # 2
"I am not sure what you are suppose to do with that, but I don't think it is suppose to flop around like that." ~Skootz~
I have a strong regard for the rules.......doc!

[jumper03 0]

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Hahaha I can't help but notice the hybrid man hanging directly in the no fly zone.

Exactly - which should make you think long and hard about doing hybrids and who you do them with.

People want to do hybirds all the time and volunteer to hang to show off their 'mad freefly skills'. Then I see the BOC is loose, PC hanging out, flaps arent secure, riser covers are shot to hell and I politely say - No thank you - and then tell them why any freeflying would be dangerous with the rig they have on.

Sorry for the hijack - I couldn't resist

Scars remind us that the past is real

[CSpenceFLY 1]

Yep, I turned down two the last time at the DZ.

[Tuna-Salad 0]

Someone on the last page said something about being adults and making choices on our own.
When I was still a student I once asked Bill Brandon if he thought I was ready or would be ok to jump in moderate winds.
His reply was "If you have to ask me then you are not ready"
I took that and ran with it... Same as when I decided to put a camera on my head, at the time I "thought" I was a good enough flyer to introduce a new variable. Again if I had to ask if I was ready then obviously I was not. I felt I was ready. I also see a lot of people talking about jump numbers. I mean no offense when I say this, but jump numbers are almost meaningless when you consider that people with tens of thousands of jumps still screw up little things. Or that guy with 500 jumps may jump his ass off in the summer and have a long layover in the winter. Or maybe the person with 200 jumps has been in the sport for 10 years. Do you think that person will be as good a flier as someone who jumps 10 or 20 times a month? If I had known my mistakes were as serious at the time as what everyone is pointing out I would of posted this in the safety and training forum as an example of what not to do. I do however look foreward to meeting DSE and learning all he can throw my way. I don't mind drinking from a fire hose.. if you get my meaning.

Millions of my potential children died on your daughters' face last night.

[peregrinerose 0]

One of the more dangerous parts of skydiving is not knowing what you don't know. Your rule of thumb, 'if you have to ask, you aren't ready' isn't a very good one. Every time you try something new... ASK. Get good information on how to go about doing something safely and learning from past mistakes instead of trying to re-write history and learn from mistakes you end up making.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[gearless_chris 1]

You can also add on your list; People who have 500 jumps but 300 of them are hop-n-pops after dumping the last static line, 1,000's of jumps and all but 500 are tandems, 200 jumps at a 182 dz vs. 200 jumps at a turbine dz. It's guaranteed that there are people with fewer jumps than me that are better fliers.

"If it wasn't easy stupid people couldn't do it", Duane.

My momma said I could be anything I wanted when I grew up, so I became an a$$hole.

[shropshire 0]

10 or 20 (or more) jumps a month doesn't make one a good jumper either.. It just ups their jump numbers .. they can still be shit.

Numbers on their own are meaningless.

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Tuna-Salad 0]

What you said... I'm not the best at wording things, but I think you guys see what I'm driving at. To me skydiving is not that difficult to learn, but being good and safe minded is a steep curve.

Millions of my potential children died on your daughters' face last night.

[millertime24 8]

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Agreed. Though jumping a camera is not the only goal he needs/wants to achieve, one should learn to be able to fly relative to everyone they jump with, of which should be learned on coach jumps before they get the the A license and are allowed to do 3 ways. People die when loose awareness of the poeple they exited the plane with........

re-read the thread. It wasn't a three-way, making it even more of a potential situation than anyone actually thought. He knows he screwed up, he's taken responsibility for it here. He's welcome on my load any time. In fact, he'll be jumping with us in Sebastian next week.
I3uller, the "kill zone" or "no-fly zone" is a cone that extends both above and below a skydiver or formation.

HEY!!! He's in MY no-fly zone.

Funny you using that picture though.

Muff #5048

[shropshire 0]

Enjoy the learning curve - sounds like you are getting a cracking mentor

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[piisfish 135]

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I don't mind drinking from a fire hose.. if you get my meaning.

are you talking about oral gratification ?
glad to hear you are ready to learn.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[livendive 8]

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Same as when I decided to put a camera on my head, at the time I "thought" I was a good enough flyer to introduce a new variable. Again if I had to ask if I was ready then obviously I was not. I felt I was ready. I also see a lot of people talking about jump numbers. I mean no offense when I say this, but jump numbers are almost meaningless when you consider that people with tens of thousands of jumps still screw up little things. Or that guy with 500 jumps may jump his ass off in the summer and have a long layover in the winter. Or maybe the person with 200 jumps has been in the sport for 10 years. Do you think that person will be as good a flier as someone who jumps 10 or 20 times a month? If I had known my mistakes were as serious at the time as what everyone is pointing out I would of posted this in the safety and training forum as an example of what not to do. I do however look foreward to meeting DSE and learning all he can throw my way. I don't mind drinking from a fire hose.. if you get my meaning.

Hey, if it's any consolation, the only reason I even came in this forum was because your thread showed up as the top thread, visible on the "forums" page and I wanted to see just how few jumps the person had who'd made the post. I wasn't the least bit surprised.

Is it standard for Z-Hills to put out freefliers before bellyfliers?

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[Tuna-Salad 0]

Z-hills is a great place and I truly hope I have not tarnished thier image or record by my own idiocy.

Millions of my potential children died on your daughters' face last night.

[CSpenceFLY 1]

Are you kidding me. They let Scotty Carbone jump there.

[CazmoDee 3]

Belly - Large to small
Freefly - Large to small
Those opening above 4000 feet
Aff
Tandem
Tracking
Wingsuit

I believe that is the exit order.

Later

I'm behind the bar at Sloppy Joe's....See ya in the Keys!

Muff 4313

[pilotdave 0]

No worse than Deland: http://www.skydivingmovies.com/ver2/pafiledb.php?action=file&id=4677... first camera jump on his 35th jump.

Dave

[Tuna-Salad 0]

I should hope that I was atleast slightly better than the one with 35

Millions of my potential children died on your daughters' face last night.

[gearless_chris 1]

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Are you kidding me. They let Scotty Carbone jump there.

I thought Scotty was awesome... at cooking.

"If it wasn't easy stupid people couldn't do it", Duane.

My momma said I could be anything I wanted when I grew up, so I became an a$$hole.

[Tuna-Salad 0]

So I guess now is not a good time to mention that I also ordered a wingsuit...

Millions of my potential children died on your daughters' face last night.

[pilotdave 0]

Ha. No, no problem there, as long as you got one with really big wings (ya know, lower wingloading).

Dave