lauraliscious 0 #51 February 25, 2009 Quote [Maybe I can hope to see more of you-all too, at Delmarva this season as well? If you do come out, please - make sure you introduce yourselves. As otherwise, up until now - I've still it seems somehow, apparently been missing you! Maybe we can take a roaming DZ trip to Delmarva someday too. I'd like to jump in as many states as possible, and haven't jumped up north at all yet! Sounds like you have a great program too. Enemiga Rodriguez, PMS #369, OrFun #25, Team Dirty Sanchez #116, Pelt Head #29, Muff #4091 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
x46255 0 #52 February 25, 2009 Hell yeah! I wish I could make the roaming DZ boogie coming up but it's a bit too far for a quick weekend trip. Delmarva has a great vibe and it's your only option for jumping in Delaware Keep your eyes out for the MAX (Mid-Atlantic Xtreme) Boogie sometime this spring/summer at Delmarva...it will definitely be EPIC! http://epicconceptions.com If you make a road trip out of it, you should check out West Point, VA too...they have a phenomenal vibe and great people too...plus a King Air that gets up almost as quick as Mullins'... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MakeItHappen 15 #53 February 25, 2009 QuoteQuoteQuoteMan, this might make me get my coach rating back. I have been jumping with newbies for free anyway but I couldn't sign their card. Even with just a coach rating you still cannot sign the card, except for 4 places on the 4-page card. There are two places on the 4-page card that a rigger may sign instead of an I. There are two places on the 4-page card that a pilot may sign instead of an I. All other items require an Instructor signature & license #. . (I wanted to discuss this in a PM before posting, but you no longer seem to accept them.) I've asked HQ about this and got an interesting reply. They said that the initialing requirements on most of the card called for an Instructor to be in full compliance with the ISP. Then they went on to say that compliance with the ISP isn't required; compliance with the ISP is optional. For all practical purposes, they were only interested that a rated Instructor signs the final qualifying signature. That Instructor has the responsibility to verify that the other sections were initialed by people who the dz accepts as qualified. So, if your dz lets coaches initial sections, that's okay with HQ. Yes all that is true, but from a liability standpoint it is not optimal. (There is a section in the coach IRM that discusses these issues.) Liability issues created a change in the BSRs that allow D licensed jumpers to jump with students under specific conditions. It used to be something that an S&TA could waiver. Some S&TAs did not want to do that because it put more liability upon themselves. The BSRs were changed to put what the S&TAs wanted to waiver into the BSRs. Coaches wanted to sign off the card because they said they 'looked incompetent to the student' when they had to go track down an I to sign the card. This situation can be avoided by making accurate records in the school's logbook as well as the student's, so that an I can sign the card off later. It seems that some people think that the card needs to signed right there in the post dive session. I know of several DZs that only let Is jump with students. They do this for liability driven reasons. In SoCal, we have an example that happened a few years ago. A jumper went through student training, graduated and jumped on and off for two years. After two years and with about 100-150 jumps, the jumper crashed and broke his body. I don't remember the injuries. The jumper sued the jump school because he claimed he was not taught how to avoid the obstacle (a desert bush). Proper signatures, according to the USPA gospel, can get a lawsuit like that dropped faster. It's up to the DZ, Is and coaches (USPA coaches or D license jumpers) what signatures they will accept. Everyone should recognize and accept the liability that it places upon them. .. Make It Happen Parachute History DiveMaker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scrumpot 1 #54 February 25, 2009 ^^^^ - Thread kill-joy! Hey Jan - maybe we can take the topic of who can sign-off on student's A-Prof card, and who can't and why (or why not) to another thread, and have a discussion on it there, if you feel it is really (still) needed? I'll be happy to participate in your other thread, if you'd like to start one. Leave this one open to all the accolades and recognition of Mike Mullin's precedent-setting, paradigm-shifting new program, that it deserves! Blue Skies, -Grant coitus non circum - Moab Stone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scrumpot 1 #55 February 25, 2009 P.S. - just another "bump" to Mike's thread, in sincere recognition of what, with his Jump-Buddy program, he is clearly doing, and contributing to the community! Rock-on MM & for as the thread title says: putting YOUR MONEY, WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS, and PAYING IT FORWARD, back into the community. Kudo's for stepping up, and standing behind, your commitment - and your new program!! Blues, -Grantcoitus non circum - Moab Stone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GLIDEANGLE 1 #56 February 25, 2009 Mike: As we in the Navy would say: Bravo Zulu (Well Done)! You are setting a high standard, to which other DZOs can rise. Thanks!The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stitch 0 #57 February 25, 2009 Just be sure to teach them to stay away from the briar patch."No cookies for you"- GFD "I don't think I like the sound of that" ~ MB65 Don't be a "Racer Hater" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
baronn 111 #58 February 26, 2009 Mike is and has always been an anamoly in this sport. He has understood what needed to be done by letting the job tell him what to do and not vice versa. If only some of the others that determine the direction of this sport understood this concept, we might be in a very different situation than what we are facing today. The cost increases in this sport have been phenomenal. No wonder the attrition rate is what it is. It will only continue in the current economy. Cudos to you Mike! I'd tell you to keep up the good work, but you don't need it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpwally 0 #59 February 27, 2009 Bring on more negative ! I'll bet youare awesome in bed !smile, be nice, enjoy life FB # - 1083 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chriswelker 0 #60 February 27, 2009 Lew (Karen Lewis) made the shirts a few years ago for WFFC. I can feel the LOVE! Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerpaul 1 #61 February 27, 2009 Most of what you initial on the cards is about witnessing assorted achievements. Yes, there are a few items about teaching stuff. But mostly, it is about witnessing. Did I see a landing that was close enough? Did I see him pack his parachute? How does attesting to witnessing something put liability on me? If I only sign things that I witness, how does that put me at risk? Who would want to sign something that they did not witness? I've got no problem with saying an "I" must sign off on teaching (except that as a rigger there are things I can teach and sign). But for simply witnessing things, why shouldn't a Coach be sufficient? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LloydDobbler 2 #62 February 27, 2009 Quote Bring on more negative ! I'll bet youare awesome in bed ! Okay, now that's just uncalled-for. Apologies to the rest of the thread for troll-feeding, but had to comment: The sad reality is, liability is a huge part of our society. And skydiving instruction, be it in a coaching capacity or as a full-on Instructor, subjects us to a heightened chance of facing litigation (which is the *new* American dream - sue someone and get rich. If only they knew...). Just because you *think* you shouldn't be liable for something doesn't mean it won't cost you a bundle to defend when you *are* sued for it. I applaud Mike for his program (Grant, you too - but I *do* think you could use someone doing better PR ). I'm floored by it. I wish more dropzones would set something up like this (heck, I wish *my* dropzone would allow me to do a coach jump with a friend for free, but alas, can't do it without breaking the rules ). But I don't fault Jan for bringing up her thoughts. It didn't seem to be intended as spiteful OR negative - just informative. Kinda like the guy who reminds you that the Vector 2 you're flying may not be good for the head-down jump you're about to do. Sure, they're raining on your parade, but it doesn't change the fact that velcro needs to be in good shape in order to freefly. Burying your head in the sand won't make liability go away - in any discussion of coaching/instructing, it's relevant. Sadly. (Though perhaps in this case it should've been split off as another thread? That's another debate.)Signatures are the new black. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
