Have you learned anything?

[hottamaly 1]

Has the endless incidents reports stopped you from doing something you weren't ready/educated to do?

Skydiving gave me a reason to live
I'm not afraid of what I'll miss when I die...I'm afraid of what I'll miss as I live

[larsrulz 0]

Where's the option for I realize the risks, but, unfortunately, got an overly-aggressive, although not necessarily too small, canopy anyway?

I got a strong urge to fly, but I got no where to fly to. -PF

[Zenister 0]

learned? quite alot, but you never know your ready for something till you try...

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[grega 0]

where's the option i know the risks i'm learning how to swoop, but i don't need to donwsize just yet...

"George just lucky i guess!"

[phoenixlpr 0]

Yeah, how to make shitty a poll.

[mjosparky 3]

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Yeah, how to make shitty a poll.

But you haven't learned not to overload your reserve by 40 pounds or jump a W/L of 1.33 with under 200 jumps.

But thats OK, you are a fast learner and can handle it.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[j3zz 0]

I have learned loads and as a result have a better understanding of the risks,

I am learning to swoop but I am not down sizing or changing planform, and I will not until I have the skills required. I expect to do atleast another 200 jumps on the cuurent canopy before even cosidering it.

Jezz

"Now I know why the birds fly"
Hinton Skydivers

[phoenixlpr 0]

So, As you see I`m not plaining to downsize for 400-500 jumps.

It was no choice like that.

My previous main was a Merit170, 4 lines broken, so I have tried my reserve too.

[hottamaly 1]

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Yeah, how to make shitty a poll.

No one is perfect and I can't think of ALL the things that should have been put there. There are all kinds of senarios.

Skydiving gave me a reason to live
I'm not afraid of what I'll miss when I die...I'm afraid of what I'll miss as I live

[mjosparky 3]

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So, As you see I`m not plaining to downsize for 400-500 jumps.

It was no choice like that.

My previous main was a Merit170, 4 lines broken, so I have tried my reserve too.

Even if you don't downsize for 1000 jumps your reserve is still overloaded. Hope you don't have to dump it a terminal. There is a reason there are limits on reserves.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[phoenixlpr 0]

If you don`t cover all kinds of scenarios you poll won`t really tell anything.

[phoenixlpr 0]

I did know that the man who sold the original setup was overloading his main, but he has not advertised that he was doing the same for the reserve. One of my mentor should have know about that issue, because he was the men in the middle. It seems I have not done my homework. I had to but the rest of the gear when I had lost the main after cut-away in the 3rd test jump of it.

This year I`ve checked pages of Flight Concepts. I`ve seen those data. I have asked my mentor about risks. I was told that it wont effect opening, but its going to bring me down faster to the ground.

[BRYANGOESBOOM 0]

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its going to bring me down faster to the ground.

ya dont say

Not only will you look better, feel better, and fuck better; you'll have significantly increased your life expectancy. --Douva

[phoenixlpr 0]

???

I can`t really remember under that load of adrenaline after cut-away.

I do remember it was flying stable and strait and I had a soft, stand-up landing with it. It is the smallest canopy I was ever flying.

[Squeak 17]

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Has the endless incidents reports stopped you from doing something you weren't ready/educated to do?

Nopethey are not the things that stop me, what stops me is knowing what my limits are in relation to what I'm doing and asking around of those that I trust to help me learn how to deal with the tools I have.

I'm about to downsze to a Stiletto 135, from a Hornet 150. BeforeI got the Hornet I asked around from the people I trust and got a 150 on their recomendation. I was actually going to get somthing bigger.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[Designer 0]

Actually,another cat. might have been needed."I know my canopy quite well,and have no need to do hook turns"

[SkydiveNFlorida 0]

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Actually,another cat. might have been needed."I know my canopy quite well,and have no need to do hook turns"

Or, how about ... "I do hook turns on my canopy, have 100+ jumps on it, and see no need to downsize at this point. And, when I do feel the need to downsize, the incident reports are not going to affect my decision to do so."

!!
Honestly, tho, an option just saying that "the incident reports have had and will have no bearing on my choice of canopy or my decisiont to swoop." would have been a good one to add. Looking at the poll it feels like someone is persuading the reader to choose the "YES" box.

How about this poll... it has the same type of options:


a) You care about your life so you use a Cypres.

b) You don't use a cypres because you have a death wish.



or,

a) You chose a small canopy because you are a wannabe follower who thinks he's cool.

b) You chose a large canopy because it was the safest thing to do.

-A

[BenediktDE 2]

There is an option missing:

[X] I did not have a reason to downsize yet.

I know I still have not done everything my canopy can, so why should I switch?

I think here in Germany people tend to downsize even quicker than in US. (Just get it from the postings.)

For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong.

[justaflygirl 0]

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but you never know your ready for something till you try...

I agree with that, I read all of these forums and try to learn as much as I can. I take my safety as my highest priority, but with the goals I have as a skydiver, I know at some point, I might have to make a step forward that i am a bit undcertain about. Even with all of the training, and being as safe as you can possibly be, you can still die in this sport.

I have accepted the risks of the sport that governs nearly every waking thouhgt of my life.

[inzite 0]

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I have accepted the risks of the sport that governs nearly every waking thought of my life.

My God, that phrase just about sums it up for me. "The sport that governs nearly every waking thought of my life."

Getting back to wingloadings though, the advice given in skydiving always tends to err on the side of caution. Hell, when I give advice (which of course never happens as I'm a 56-jump know-nothing), I always err on the side of safety.

But we all know we often don't hold the same standards for ourselves that we hold for others. My own case in point, I just returned from a 9-month break, and promptly started the season by downsizing from a 190 Spectre to a 150 Scorpion. Is that kind of transition a conservative thing to do after a 9-month lapse? Hell no.

If someone else had asked me for my thoughts on such a switch, I would have told them "ask someone who has more experience than me, cause I don't know shit in this sport, but personally it sounds like a bad idea to me."

However, for myself, I knew the change was the right decision for me - without a doubt. After just 40 jumps on a 190 Spectre, I felt like I was driving a schoolbus. Having just moved to another country where I couldn't find a used 170 container anywhere just confirmed my choice to get a 150 system (hell, finding a 150 container was difficult enough - I really think people downsize a lot faster, and start a lot smaller here, than in the US).

The point being, it's great to advise people to be cautious...it's great to try and keep people from overstepping their bounds. But there's definitely a limit to the caution. It's unreasonable (though sensible) to put a good 200-300 jumps on every canopy, and learn to fly it completely, before downsizing. If everybody did that, it'd take 1000 jumps to hit a 1.5 wingloading (and while for some that is good, not everybody needs it).

The advice will always be to "take it slow and steady," but the reality of the situation is that some of the advice out there really is _too_ conservative. When you're 100% ready to progress, educate yourself about all the effects of your decision, be ready to take a step back if you make the wrong choice (hopefully before ending up on the incidents forum), and accept the possible results.

[ianmdrennan 2]

So lets get this straight, you expect other people to follow experienced jumpers advice (since you refer them to the experienced jumper) but you don't take experienced jumpers advice cause you know what's better for you?

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My own case in point, I just returned from a 9-month break, and promptly started the season by downsizing from a 190 Spectre to a 150 Scorpion. Is that kind of transition a conservative thing to do after a 9-month lapse? Hell no.

So you knowingly made a bad decision - hope you don't apply that mentality to flying your canopy. It's the kind of stuff that gets people in trouble.

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(hell, finding a 150 container was difficult enough - I really think people downsize a lot faster, and start a lot smaller here, than in the US).

Ahh, so if everyone's doing it then it's ok to follow the trend? See, you're all going through what we're (I hope) coming out of. It's an old school mindset that's slowly changing, but go ahead - reinvent the wheel.

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When you're 100% ready to progress, educate yourself about all the effects of your decision,

When you're truely ready to progress, you won't need to.

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[inzite 0]

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So lets get this straight, you expect other people to follow experienced jumpers advice (since you refer them to the experienced jumper) but you don't take experienced jumpers advice cause you know what's better for you?

Exactly my point though. When giving advice to others, we give advice that is by and large more cautious than need be (better than giving advice that's not cautious enough). I do this just as much as anyone else.
But for people making a decision on whether to downsize, start swooping, etc., they start with the advice of other experienced jumpers (which will probably be very cautious) and then make up their own mind about what is appropriate for them and the amount of risk they're willing to accept. And this rarely is as cautious as the same advice they would give others. Hence the "I'm ready for this next step/smaller canopy, but I wouldn't recommend it to anyone else" situation.
I would argue that a jumper's decision to downsize isn't wrong just because he/she wouldn't recommend it to someone else at that skill level. What it means is that this jumper at this skill level is personally willing to accept the risk (and hopefully has a good idea of the risk involved).

[ianmdrennan 2]

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When giving advice to others, we give advice that is by and large more cautious than need be (better than giving advice that's not cautious enough).

I try not to patronize people who ask for my advice by 'dumming down' their skill level. I make an honest assesment (with the info I have access to - which, granted, online can be especially limiting) and give them advice that I believe will set them on the track with the highest chance of success and achieving their goals. I don't give people any advice I don't believe in or follow.

There is no 'fast way' in canopy flight. The way that initially seems the fastest (to the inexperienced eye), ends up being the longest. You can spend time learning it now (when you dont have to fight habit and muscle memory) or you can spend it later and take 2x as long breaking all the bad habits later.

Either way you pay the piper. How much is up to you.

Blues,
Ian

Performance Designs Factory Team

[billvon 2,433]

>Hence the "I'm ready for this next step/smaller canopy, but I
>wouldn't recommend it to anyone else" situation.

This reasoning has led to the deaths of an awful lot of jumpers. I think it's flawed on that basis alone.