"Partner protection" @ '09 USPA Nationals

[LouDiamond 1]

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I suggest you look at post #4 and think about it for a second.

Actually, I believe this person has won more and done more than BB has. Honestly.

Not to take away from BB's past, but I'm looking at this with out rose colored glasses.

Not taking away from your anonymous posters accomplishments as a competitor but no one in this thread can say they have planned from nuts to bolts and hosted more Nationals and Level 1 events than she has. There is more to a Nationals than you, I, your anonymous poster or anyone else in this thread could imagine. If you think you(and others) are looking at this without rose colored glasses you are fooling yourselves.

It's one thing to be a competitor and another thing to be a Nationals event organizer, few people have done both. Nationals is and should be about the competitors, period.

That's all I have to say about that.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[CSpenceFLY 1]

And if the dz cut cost and amenities everyone would be bitching about that.

[DSE 3]

You missed the second half of that post;

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It seems that the politics of this particular situation may play not only a distraction for the net-heads, but for the competitors as well.
I can agree with no flags, windblades, marketing material, but the packing tents, gear, clothing are part of the necessary package teams require in order to compete.

I'm on your side. I do believe some restrictions are appropriate, otherwise there is zero incentive to sponsor, and less value for those who do. Leave the packing tents alone, put them into a singular area ie; "marshalling yard," and it leaves the main areas visible for sponsor value while not negatively impacting the team. I don't see restricting windblades or banners as being problematic, but the tent issue raises some questions in my mind.

A fine balance has to be struck, because the nationals can't be as robust without sponsorship, but if there is no value in sponsorship, then some aspect of the event has to lose out. Budgets are budgets. Yes, USPA members fund themselves, but the jump ticket, reg, and sponsor dollars go to cover more than typical DZ staffing. Communications, promotion, video displays, sound systems, security, lighting, non-volunteer staff...all cost extra too. Someone has to foot that bill, ie; sponsors.
I'm glad I'm not the one balancing the budget.

[davelepka 4]

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And if the dz cut cost and amenities everyone would be bitching about that.

Of course they would, because that would also be improving the DZs bottom line at the expense of the competitors.

So you've highlighted another way you could make people unhappy. How does that make this way of making people unhappy any better?

They could do all sorts of things to fuck people over, and each of them would all be independantly wrong. Solving one of them, or adding ten doesn't change that fact that each of them still sucks.

[CSpenceFLY 1]

Seems as though you just have a problem with the DZ or event organizer coming out right side up. There are already DZs that have hosted nationals that will never do it again. We don't need that list to get very long.

I am interested to know how many people here doing the complaining have actually been to nationals and seen for themselves what it takes to host it.

[MakeItHappen 15]

I really don't see what the issue is.
Their policy:

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For the 2009 USPA National Skydiving Championships, sponsored teams or individuals will be allowed to wear their sponsored gear and sponsor clothing but they will not be permitted to hand out any sponsor products, literature or advertisements about these companies.

Skydive Spaceland is building strong partnerships for the USPA Nationals scheduled for Oct 12-25, 2009. The host will have an onsite marketing team patrolling the venue taking care of our partners making sure there is no “ambush marketing” onsite. In an effort to protect the investment of our exclusive partners we must make sure any non-sponsoring company does not promote themselves during the event.

For this reason the host’s marketing group will not allow sponsored teams or individuals to promote sponsors onsite during Nationals. This means sponsored teams/individuals cannot set up any tents, flags, airblades and more showing any company logos. If you have a packing tent you want to use during Nationals but it has a sponsor logo then you must completely cover up the logo on both sides of the material.

If your team sponsor happens to be one of our event sponsors then you can display these these logos without restriction. Thank you for supporting our efforts to build stronger more productive partnerships within the skydiving industry. If you have any questions please contact us at the address above. We look forward to seeing you at this year’s big event.

is nothing more than a throwback to when Nationals was run in Muskogee and PIA (PEIA) created the 'vendor mall'.
To get a booth and the right to pitch your products you had to pay a fee.

When's the last time you saw competitors handing out trinkets?
It's usually a sales rep under a tent.
It's hard to imagine that competitors will start out each morning wearing 5 tshirts to hand out 4 to others to promote their sponsor.

Is or has 'ambush marketing' really been a problem?
The only thing remotely close to this are the free tshirts given to the judges by some mfgs.
I suppose they are entitled to kick out a girl scout that comes along to sell cookies.

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Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[PORKr 0]

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I really don't see what the issue is.
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Is or has 'ambush marketing' really been a problem?

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In winter of 1983 as DPRE Joe Smith handed me my Master Rigger Certificate he said: "Mark, this industry is made up of a bunch of cutthroat, backstabbing mother fuckers. Be safe. And don't forget where you come from."

rip Joe
you were right

[CSpenceFLY 1]

Your statement and what you quoted make no sense. Do you have another user name that rants about world record demos?

[aliveboy2004 0]

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. But what DZ would let someone put up another DZ's windblade? This is not a Boogie.


correct - it's not a boogie being put on by a specific dropzone. it is a national competition being put on by (what should be but understandabally can't be) a neutral site. it should be at atmosphere like the Freefall Convention of old. Imagine the Olympics where none of the countries participating were allowed to display their national flags - oh wait - that was Nazi Germany.

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[aliveboy2004 0]

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>Isn't it silly that handing out stickers won't be allowed at this year's nationals?

I think that while having a table with stickers will not be allowed, all the sticker police in the world won't be able to prevent them from being passed out. And skydivers being what they are, I have a feeling that a lot of "illegal" stickers will appear on the manifest desk, the insides of the airplanes, the mockups, the podiums, the packing tents etc. Indeed, I can see the frantic efforts of the sticker police to remove said stickers just making things worse.

All I'll say is, I would never even think about putting a sticker in one of Steve's planes.

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and that statement, packer boy, just smacks of being a thrown down gauntlet!!

[dqpacker 7]

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. But what DZ would let someone put up another DZ's windblade? This is not a Boogie.


correct - it's not a boogie being put on by a specific dropzone. it is a national competition being put on by (what should be but understandabally can't be) a neutral site. it should be at atmosphere like the Freefall Convention of old. Imagine the Olympics where none of the countries participating were allowed to display their national flags - oh wait - that was Nazi Germany.

The Freefall Convention was a boogie, the biggest boogie of all time, nice try.

[robinheid 0]

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Read.

Discuss?

I read it, but before I discussed it I wanted to know more about the company that produced it so I went to New Step Marketing's "website."

It is a cover page with no content, just email addresses for its "marketing director" and "marketing manager."

Which pretty much explains everything. Spaceland could have avoided this whole mess had it hired professionals instead of the yahoos who wrote this laughably artless, ham-handed, tone-deaf, totally clueless drivel.

Because the bottom line is: Pretty much everyone who posted on this subject is right on one level or several and if this announcement had been been professionally instead of amateurishly presented, it could have driven more potential "partners" to Spaceland instead of aggravating everybody and giving Spaceland and USPA a black eye.

SCR-6933 / SCS-3463 / D-5533 / BASE 44 / CCS-37 / 82d Airborne (Ret.)

"The beginning of wisdom is to first call things by their right names."

[dqpacker 7]

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and that statement, packer boy, just smacks of being a thrown down gauntlet!!

Once again you make no sense.
STRIKE TWO!
And that's Mister Packboy to you.

[Krip 2]

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>Isn't it silly that handing out stickers won't be allowed at this year's nationals?

I think that while having a table with stickers will not be allowed, all the sticker police in the world won't be able to prevent them from being passed out. And skydivers being what they are, I have a feeling that a lot of "illegal" stickers will appear on the manifest desk, the insides of the airplanes, the mockups, the podiums, the packing tents etc. Indeed, I can see the frantic efforts of the sticker police to remove said stickers just making things worse.

All I'll say is, I would never even think about putting a sticker in one of Steve's planes.

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and that statement, packer boy, just smacks of being a thrown down gauntlet!!

Hi 2004

In the spirit of cooperation, sportmanship etc I'd like to defuse this situation before it starts. What we here is a failure to communicate.

I don't think it was Mister packer boy's intent start some shit. I don't think he has the authority to throw down the gauntlet for steve.

Mister Packer boy : Remove foot from mouth and watch your butt for steves foot.

I'm sure that the visiting skydivers know the packer boy wasn't speaking for steve and will take that into account. Their mature adults and are guests at the DZ and will respect the DZOs property.

Disclaimer I've never met Mister Packer boy or steve and am not authorized to speak for either of them or the visiting skydivers.

Can't we all just get along,

One Jump Wonder

[wmw999 2,122]

Testosterone is a wonderful substance

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[davelepka 4]

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Thank you for supporting our efforts to build stronger more productive partnerships within the skydiving industry.

I'll take a new approach to this issue, and ask this -

What advantage will the competitors experience over previous Nationals as a result of granting exclusive advertising rights to Aerodyne, Sky Systems, and Vigil (those happen to be the 'partners')?

I know that the DZ will experience an increase in revenue as a result of making the sponsorship positions exclusive, so unless the DZ plans to offer amenities or services in excess of what was offered in prevuous years, then placing a limitation on the competitors and their personal sponsorship opportunities is actually subtracting from their experience.

Competitors get less, DZ gets more. Unless, of course, the DZ does plan to offer new and unique services or amenities for this event.

Anyone know what they've got up their sleeve? Is Snoop Dogg performing at the opening ceremony? Free valet parking? Two-ply tissue in all of the johns?

[CSpenceFLY 1]

Let me try this from another point. What if it was either this, charge everyone more to attend or cancel nationals. Which would you complain less about?

[dqpacker 7]

The no sticker's in planes is company policy.

No I'm not trying to start shit. And no I don't have the authority to throw down the gauntlet for Steve. He handles that himself. I was just giving warning to anyone dumb enough to try it.

And yes I am not speaking for Steve. I am giving my Opinion and My Opinion only.

Anyone who wants to talk to me further can talk to me in the Real world at Nationals. This thread has been taken over by people who have nothing to do with this, or is not effected by it an anyway.
Peace haters

[billvon 2,400]

>I was just giving warning to anyone dumb enough to try it.

Now THAT'S throwing down the gauntlet. Let it be known that the Sticker Police will come down hard on anyone dumb enough to attempt to put an unauthorized sticker on official Spaceland and/or USPA administered property!

[LyraM45 0]

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Let me try this from another point. What if it was either this, charge everyone more to attend or cancel nationals. Which would you complain less about?

Then by this reasoning all of the nationals in the past that didn't have this sponsor agreement should have had to charge more for the competitors to come and compete. I don't think they did, so what is the change now? They wouldn't have to charge more to attend, just as past nationals hasn't because other venues did not go over board and build shiny new everything and hangars that look like they are on steriods. Will that make for a nicer venue for the comp? Sure it will. Will they be able to use those facilities for a lot of events after this that will be for their own personal profit? Sure it will. Will they be able to market their DZ better with said new facilities and theoretically be able to bring more money in down the road off of it at their own future boogies and events? Probably. Should the competitors foot the bill for all of that or they or their sponsors be punished because they are not footing the bill for all of that? IMO, hell no.

Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :)

[CSpenceFLY 1]

This is laughable. People gripping because the DZ built new hangers and you think nationals are paying for it. I would be willing to bet that Spaceland would make more on a regular weekend of tandems then they will off of nationals. Really people you all should do some research and see what all is involved in hosting this event.

I bet some of you think that Skyfest paid for the runway paving there.

[billvon 2,400]

>People gripping because the DZ built new hangers . . .

Who's "gripping" because the DZ built new hangars? Good for them.

>Really people you all should do some research and see what all is involved
>in hosting this event.

Good advice. A lot goes into it. When Spaceland gave their presentation at the USPA meeting, they also listed all the work they were going to do to prepare for Nationals, and last time I checked they had completed 90% of it.

[LyraM45 0]

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This is laughable. People gripping because the DZ built new hangers and you think nationals are paying for it. I would be willing to bet that Spaceland would make more on a regular weekend of tandems then they will off of nationals. Really people you all should do some research and see what all is involved in hosting this event.

I bet some of you think that Skyfest paid for the runway paving there.

I'm not griping. I think it's great if thats what they choose to do, but what I am saying is look at what other DZ's have done in the past and what kind of "extra charge" they had to charge that you're talking about because they did not have a sponsor agreement and also buffed up for nationals. Nobody said they thought Nationals were paying for all of this. That is exactly my point. A few posts up somebody sited that spaceland put the bid in for nationals and was well aware of the costs associated with, as other dropzones in the past have, so now here they are.

You should do some research and see what events and businesses I have been involved with before you insinuate that I or anybody else doesn't have an idea what goes into something of this magnitude.

Also, you never really answered my theory-- why didn't other dropzones in the past have to charge this extra amount that you are talking about that spaceland would have to charge without the sponsor agreement?

Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :)

[davelepka 4]

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I would be willing to bet that Spaceland would make more on a regular weekend of tandems then they will off of nationals.

Many people have suggested that they will actually lose money hosting Nationals, and if that's the case, I certainly hope a weekends worth of tandems are more profitable.

Keeping this in mind, the DZ stepped up and put in a bid good enough to win them the meet. I'm sure that they were well aware of what they needed to bring to the table while bidding, and wouldn't be the least bit surprised to find out that they had consulted DZOs who had previously hosted Nationals while researching and preparing their bid.

With this in mind, they moved forward with the bidding process, and won. They determined that the investment would be worth the return, even if that return isn't monetary, be it facilities, or DZ promotion or somethig else entirely.

Maybe the DZ was in need of new hangers or other facilities, and their choices were to out-of-pocket 100% of the cost, of host Nationals, and let the meet pay for a portion of those improvements.

Whatever their motivation was, they (presumably) did their due dilligence, put in the bid, and accepted the responsibility of hosting the meet.

After the fact they found a way to generate additional revenue by making the sponsorship for the event more exclusive. In terms of their bid, and what they said they would do it for, the DZ is ahead money because of this. If this represents additional profit, or reduced loss is not important, the DZ is ahead of where they thought they would be.

The rub is that to get that leg up, they had to step on the competitors toes. You just can't do that. That's dirty pool, and that's not the way to make friends or influence people.

[kallend 1,623]

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The rub is that to get that leg up, they had to step on the competitors toes. You just can't do that. That's dirty pool, and that's not the way to make friends or influence people.

I've competed at several Nationals and have yet to see any competitor handing out their sponsors' "goodies". They (we) are all too busy with the business at hand, which is competing.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.