jayrech 0 #151 April 18, 2010 I like t use this place as a good refrence to the things my dzo gives me shit for. He yells at me, I look for the other 100 jump wonder getting ragged on for the same thing in here. when i find one, i read it, relate to it, and feel better that im not the only idiot getting ragged on for surviving my fuck ups!D.S 174.2 Be careful what you say. Some one might take it the right way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #152 April 18, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Im going to go play in active avalanche terrain! After living thru three...the third one just barely.. I gave that shit up... no more back country skiing for moi. I spent a whole season doing nothing but 'back country' snowboarding here in CO one year. It is some of the best terrain you can ride, getting untouched powder all day long. Thankfully I never had any brushes with avalanches... and I haven't done it in years now, do miss it from time to time tho. Our weather here in the North Cascades is some sick shit......and we get a LOT of different conditions depending on the weather system off the Pacific. a few years ago we had 120 FT of snow on Mt Baker... in one season. The variability of the layersfrom successive storms.. just begs for friggin slabs to cut loose to fuck with you. IT just hailed here at my place so I am sure its dumping big time up at the pass right now. Here it is mid April..and here is the report for our areahttp://www.nwac.us/forecast/avalanche/current/zone/5/ Over a week has passed since the last in the series of strong spring storms passed the Northwest. Only periodic showers have occurred over the past week with periods of strong sunshine and most recently very warm mountain temperatures. The weather this week has caused between 1.5 to 3 feet of snowpack consolidation. However, the snowfall amounts that fell from late March through the first week of April amounted to some 7 to over 12 feet of snow! Most areas therefore still have deep wet snow conditions of 1 to 3 feet or more, especially at mid and lower elevations. These deep wet snow conditions and thus the potential for some big and dangerous wet slides, have been a topic of much concern by many of the local avalanche professionals we speak to on a daily bases at NWAC and thus it should be a concern for backcountry travelers as well. This deep wet surface snow is maintaining the possibility of some large and dangerous wet snow avalanches. Some previous wet snow avalanches earlier this week has begun to shed some of the wet surface layers, but much more is yet to come down. There also remains areas of large cornices along ridges that formed recently and may fail during daytime warming. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NovaTTT 1 #153 April 18, 2010 Quote and feel better that im ...surviving my fuck ups! It's the best ending, if you're gonna fuck up! "Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #154 April 18, 2010 Quote I like t use this place as a good refrence to the things my dzo gives me shit for. He yells at me, I look for the other 100 jump wonder getting ragged on for the same thing in here. when i find one, i read it, relate to it, and feel better that im not the only idiot getting ragged on for surviving my fuck ups! Understanding that they are "fuck ups" and that you are lucky to walk away safely from them is a large part of the battle.Believing you were skilled and not merely lucky, or thinking it WONT happen to you are the 2 worst attitudes i have seen on a DZ.You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #155 April 18, 2010 QuoteWhat a fucking dick...... Is someone who thinks they know what the hell they are doing in less than a 1000 jumps. At 150 jumps you have been skydiving all of 2.5 hours. It took you longer than that to learn how to tie your shoes. You can tie your shoes can't you? Like the man said, fucking morons. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NovaTTT 1 #156 April 18, 2010 QuoteQuoteMy point exactly... if you know your reserve is deploying the second you pull your cutaway and you can feel it deploying is there a need to pull your reserve handle? If you think there is please explain. The reasons for pulling your reserve handle regardless of RSL/Skyhook have been discussed before and have been mentioned in this thread. You, ridestrong, saidQuoteI have a Skyhook and I could feel my reserve opening as I put my hand on the 'D' ring. Your video shows you cutaway at the 25 sec mark. The video shows your reserve Skyhook deployed at the 27 sec mark. The cap shows your hands on the risers as the reserve is inflating. You're pretty damned good - doing all that speedy thinking and acting during your self-created first malfunction. There's just no point in making something up. Quack, quack. QuoteQuoteWell you and I both know you are a liar, cause I'm pretty sure you remember typing it with your own two hands and I remember reading it with my own two eyes... before you edited out. I think you need glasses. The "You're a moron" posting is unedited. Unlike yourself, I have nothing to hide or lie about. QuoteQuoteI have an idea... I am willing to discuss every last detail of the mal/cutaway point-by-point Cutaway procedures have been discussed ad naseum on this forum. The person you need to talk with is your mentor, coach and/or S&TA. You have some screwed up ideas and the person you end up injuring may not be yourself. I believe you suffer from cranial-rectal inversion. Your S&TA should have experience with remedying that diagnosis. Good luck. Blue skies."Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ridestrong 1 #157 April 19, 2010 QuoteAnything I edited was done so only for spelling and/or grammar, but I did not edit the "You are a moron" post. If you think that comment was rude, wait'll you hear this: I think you're a moron, too. You basically admitted it twice right there. It's like asking a drunk to say the alphabet backwards and they reply, "I can even say the alphabet backwards when I'm sober." Anyway, keep up the good work. Blue Skies. -Hopefully no more moron pack jobs for me... and no GoPro till 200.*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.* ----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.---- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #158 April 19, 2010 Quote I'd rather be bold than old and have a fucking blast while it lasts Lots of idiots say that, until the bloody snot bubbles start popping. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hellis 0 #159 April 19, 2010 Quote -Hopefully no more moron pack jobs for me... and no GoPro till 200. 7 pages of replys, 157 posts. And we got one! So if we keep this thread for annother 7 pages we might get Sangi? Nobody is perfect, but learning from misstakes makes you better than those who cant admit defeat. I just have one question. Do you have a Protrack, Viso, Neptune or something like that? Im curious about your main deployment altitude. Looking at the video, you are under a spinning main for ~16 seconds. You said you where under reserve at 2000, i just wanted to know how much altitude you lost during those 16 seconds. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ridestrong 1 #160 April 19, 2010 Quote Im curious about your main deployment altitude. Looking at the video, you are under a spinning main for ~16 seconds. You said you where under reserve at 2000, i just wanted to know how much altitude you lost during those 16 seconds. Here is a pic of my alti at wave off @ 4,200. Likely pulled closer to 3,800. I have a Safire2 with a decent snivel. Often 1000' from pitch to under main, putting me at ~2,800 at mal time. So I'm guessing I lost around 800' including cutaway to reserve distance. My VISO put me under reserve at exactly 2000'.*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.* ----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.---- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hellis 0 #161 April 19, 2010 Thanks! Its not that bad. If you have a Viso, what is the deployment altitude according to it? What i have noticed with the Viso is that it records the altitude when slider is down, compared to Protrack recording at ~ linestretch. Its a good thing you didnt pull at 3000, that would mean you would run out of altitude very quickly Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ridestrong 1 #162 April 19, 2010 Quote What i have noticed with the Viso is that it records the altitude when slider is down, compared to Protrack recording at ~ linestretch. I believe you are right, it's essentially at slider down. Quote Its a good thing you didnt pull at 3000, that would mean you would run out of altitude very quickly Agreed... my usual wave/pull alti is 4K. *I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.* ----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.---- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NovaTTT 1 #163 April 19, 2010 QuoteQuoteAnything I edited was done so only for spelling and/or grammar, but I did not edit the "You are a moron" post. If you think that comment was rude, wait'll you hear this: I think you're a moron, too. You basically admitted it twice right there.Quote Man, you are stupid. You can read, right? Notice the bolded portion above? Look at the attached image to see the "Moron" post, which is post #119. It is unedited. I think you should focus less on the things I'm not doing and more on the stupid shit you are doing. It's beginning to sound like you've lost your binky. QuoteQuote It's like asking a drunk to say the alphabet backwards and they reply, "I can even say the alphabet backwards when I'm sober." If he can say it, what's the problem? You continue to not make sense. Moron."Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites shropshire 0 #164 April 19, 2010 (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites timmyfitz 0 #165 April 19, 2010 Quote Its a good thing you didnt pull at 3000, that would mean you would run out of altitude very quickly That would mean he would have been under a reserve at 1000 feet instead of 2000 feet. Still a safe altitude. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites NovaTTT 1 #166 April 19, 2010 'nuff said! "Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 6 #167 April 19, 2010 Quote Quote Its a good thing you didnt pull at 3000, that would mean you would run out of altitude very quickly That would mean he would have been under a reserve at 1000 feet instead of 2000 feet. Still a safe altitude. Unless something ELSE goes sideways. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites HSPScott 0 #168 April 19, 2010 Enjoy the journey. Take your time. The sky will be waiting. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites timmyfitz 0 #169 April 19, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Its a good thing you didnt pull at 3000, that would mean you would run out of altitude very quickly That would mean he would have been under a reserve at 1000 feet instead of 2000 feet. Still a safe altitude. Unless something ELSE goes sideways. Which would apply to every skydiver. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ridestrong 1 #170 April 20, 2010 The post below was from a 4500 jumper, discussing incidents and I thought it was relevant to some of the issues discussed earlier in this thread. It is just one of many relevant posts in that thread. QuoteA guy with 1,000 jumps who is very current, and on a 4 way team. Had his cutaway accidently come out. He tracked away pulled his main, which left the second it was out. He fell the 2,000 feet to impact stable. Why? Well he did'nt have what most think of as a mal...It was not above him all screwed up. He threw his main..where was it? He was confused, and now dead. A guy with over 5,000 jumps, and several cutaways (including Tandem) had an AAD save him...Why? He waited for his RSL to pull FOR HIM after a cutaway... problem was...It was not hooked up. Everyone thinks they can handle it when the shit hits the fan....But some just don't...They freak out. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=532763;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.* ----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.---- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Amazon 7 #171 April 20, 2010 My EP's go something like... ... I need some of that nylon material that is working properly to save my life on every jump........screwed up main... cutaway.. and try to beat my RSL by pulling silver..so that I can get that nylon above my head that is going to save my life. Of my 3 cutaways on modern gear.. I only managed to beat the RSL once, but I pulled silver all 3 times. I am NOT waiting for my RSL to work... I am sure as hell not going to wait for my cypres2 to fire. In a situation where PLAN A... ain't working.... I get Plan B goin on just as fast as I can. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ghost47 18 #172 April 20, 2010 I don't think anyone will say that experienced people can't get hurt. Just like no one can honestly say that inexperienced people will DEFINITELY get hurt if they continue doing what they're doing. It's a question of probabilities. A person with more experience is more likely to be able to react correctly. A person with less is less likely. But neither is guaranteed. To put in different terms, if a first-year med student, after taking anatomy, wanted to do a tricky surgery, I assume you would say no. "But I know where all the organs are, and I can do it," the student might say. Maybe so. But will that student know what to do when something goes wrong? He might. But he might not. Will an experienced surgeon know what to do when something goes wrong? He might. He might not. Who is more LIKELY to know? Would you let the first-year med student try the surgery? Or would you categorically forbid it, no matter how smart the first-year seemed to be? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites miconar 0 #173 April 21, 2010 QuoteMy EP's go something like... ... I need some of that nylon material that is working properly to save my life on every jump........screwed up main... cutaway.. and try to beat my RSL by pulling silver..so that I can get that nylon above my head that is going to save my life. Of my 3 cutaways on modern gear.. I only managed to beat the RSL once, but I pulled silver all 3 times. I am NOT waiting for my RSL to work... I am sure as hell not going to wait for my cypres2 to fire. In a situation where PLAN A... ain't working.... I get Plan B goin on just as fast as I can. isnt part of the way skyhooks work is to deploy the reserve as soon as the main is safely out of the reserve's way? of course you should pull your handle, but isnt trying to beat your rsl (skyhook more so) unnecessarily increases your risk of a main reserve entanglement? maybe if your main gets shredded to bits at 500 feet i see the point (though I was instructed not to chop below 1000 ft, just deploy reserve), but at 2500-3500 ft? i am not saying get stable before pulling, just let your main clear the space where your reserve is going into. I was trained to chop with both hands on each handle with my eyes on my reserve handle when pulling cutaway, I would think time from cutaway to getting hands on the reserve handle is enough. do you think waiting to clear the main is a waste of time? I have 300 jumps and zero cutaways, I jump with skyhook and cypress2, and will not change my current EPs based on anything written here without talking with several instructors at my DZ, so dont worry about me going stupid becuase of anything smart you say :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Hellis 0 #174 April 21, 2010 Quote I was trained to chop with both hands on each handle with my eyes on my reserve handle when pulling cutaway, I would think time from cutaway to getting hands on the reserve handle is enough. When you have time and/or RSL and/or Skyhook its a good way to (hopefully) ensure you dont end up with two out. But what happens if you dont have the above mentioned? Not enough time to pull both hands on each handle, No skyhook or RSL? I can understand why you would teach students to use both hands as they (always?) have atleast RSL, but once you have a license you might not. Im not saying because you have a A-license you need to change your EPs, but you should think of, and know what the difference are between them. And if you are sticking with the two hand way, always when jumping new gear think of how it will work with that gear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kkeenan 13 #175 April 21, 2010 Quote...do you think waiting to clear the main is a waste of time? Yes. You should be sure that the main has actually released from both sides before pulling the reserve ripcord. But as far as purposely delaying the reserve pull in order for the main to get out of the way - That is not necessary. As soon as the risers are released (and nothing else is attached to you, i.e. lines, PC, etc.) the main is accelerating away from you and should not interfere with the reserve. Some people choose to not use an RSL-type system. There are various reasons for this. Since you use one, you have committed yourself to having your reserve activated immediately upon riser release. You cannot change this without releasing your RSL connection, something that would not be advised in the middle of a malfunction. The Skyhook does not activate the reserve any quicker than a standard RSL, but it accellerates reserve deployment by effectively "static-lining" the reserve to the departing main. This works to eliminate any reserve pilot chute hesitation. As with any of these "automatic" systems, you should practice and complete the manual reserve pull as part of your EPs. Any number of things can interfere with the "automatic" functions. Considering the time frame of most EP initiations, there may not be much spare time available to work with any anomaly which may occur. Kevin K._____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ? 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shropshire 0 #164 April 19, 2010 (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
timmyfitz 0 #165 April 19, 2010 Quote Its a good thing you didnt pull at 3000, that would mean you would run out of altitude very quickly That would mean he would have been under a reserve at 1000 feet instead of 2000 feet. Still a safe altitude. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NovaTTT 1 #166 April 19, 2010 'nuff said! "Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #167 April 19, 2010 Quote Quote Its a good thing you didnt pull at 3000, that would mean you would run out of altitude very quickly That would mean he would have been under a reserve at 1000 feet instead of 2000 feet. Still a safe altitude. Unless something ELSE goes sideways. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HSPScott 0 #168 April 19, 2010 Enjoy the journey. Take your time. The sky will be waiting. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
timmyfitz 0 #169 April 19, 2010 Quote Quote Quote Its a good thing you didnt pull at 3000, that would mean you would run out of altitude very quickly That would mean he would have been under a reserve at 1000 feet instead of 2000 feet. Still a safe altitude. Unless something ELSE goes sideways. Which would apply to every skydiver. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ridestrong 1 #170 April 20, 2010 The post below was from a 4500 jumper, discussing incidents and I thought it was relevant to some of the issues discussed earlier in this thread. It is just one of many relevant posts in that thread. QuoteA guy with 1,000 jumps who is very current, and on a 4 way team. Had his cutaway accidently come out. He tracked away pulled his main, which left the second it was out. He fell the 2,000 feet to impact stable. Why? Well he did'nt have what most think of as a mal...It was not above him all screwed up. He threw his main..where was it? He was confused, and now dead. A guy with over 5,000 jumps, and several cutaways (including Tandem) had an AAD save him...Why? He waited for his RSL to pull FOR HIM after a cutaway... problem was...It was not hooked up. Everyone thinks they can handle it when the shit hits the fan....But some just don't...They freak out. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=532763;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.* ----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.---- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Amazon 7 #171 April 20, 2010 My EP's go something like... ... I need some of that nylon material that is working properly to save my life on every jump........screwed up main... cutaway.. and try to beat my RSL by pulling silver..so that I can get that nylon above my head that is going to save my life. Of my 3 cutaways on modern gear.. I only managed to beat the RSL once, but I pulled silver all 3 times. I am NOT waiting for my RSL to work... I am sure as hell not going to wait for my cypres2 to fire. In a situation where PLAN A... ain't working.... I get Plan B goin on just as fast as I can. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ghost47 18 #172 April 20, 2010 I don't think anyone will say that experienced people can't get hurt. Just like no one can honestly say that inexperienced people will DEFINITELY get hurt if they continue doing what they're doing. It's a question of probabilities. A person with more experience is more likely to be able to react correctly. A person with less is less likely. But neither is guaranteed. To put in different terms, if a first-year med student, after taking anatomy, wanted to do a tricky surgery, I assume you would say no. "But I know where all the organs are, and I can do it," the student might say. Maybe so. But will that student know what to do when something goes wrong? He might. But he might not. Will an experienced surgeon know what to do when something goes wrong? He might. He might not. Who is more LIKELY to know? Would you let the first-year med student try the surgery? Or would you categorically forbid it, no matter how smart the first-year seemed to be? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miconar 0 #173 April 21, 2010 QuoteMy EP's go something like... ... I need some of that nylon material that is working properly to save my life on every jump........screwed up main... cutaway.. and try to beat my RSL by pulling silver..so that I can get that nylon above my head that is going to save my life. Of my 3 cutaways on modern gear.. I only managed to beat the RSL once, but I pulled silver all 3 times. I am NOT waiting for my RSL to work... I am sure as hell not going to wait for my cypres2 to fire. In a situation where PLAN A... ain't working.... I get Plan B goin on just as fast as I can. isnt part of the way skyhooks work is to deploy the reserve as soon as the main is safely out of the reserve's way? of course you should pull your handle, but isnt trying to beat your rsl (skyhook more so) unnecessarily increases your risk of a main reserve entanglement? maybe if your main gets shredded to bits at 500 feet i see the point (though I was instructed not to chop below 1000 ft, just deploy reserve), but at 2500-3500 ft? i am not saying get stable before pulling, just let your main clear the space where your reserve is going into. I was trained to chop with both hands on each handle with my eyes on my reserve handle when pulling cutaway, I would think time from cutaway to getting hands on the reserve handle is enough. do you think waiting to clear the main is a waste of time? I have 300 jumps and zero cutaways, I jump with skyhook and cypress2, and will not change my current EPs based on anything written here without talking with several instructors at my DZ, so dont worry about me going stupid becuase of anything smart you say :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hellis 0 #174 April 21, 2010 Quote I was trained to chop with both hands on each handle with my eyes on my reserve handle when pulling cutaway, I would think time from cutaway to getting hands on the reserve handle is enough. When you have time and/or RSL and/or Skyhook its a good way to (hopefully) ensure you dont end up with two out. But what happens if you dont have the above mentioned? Not enough time to pull both hands on each handle, No skyhook or RSL? I can understand why you would teach students to use both hands as they (always?) have atleast RSL, but once you have a license you might not. Im not saying because you have a A-license you need to change your EPs, but you should think of, and know what the difference are between them. And if you are sticking with the two hand way, always when jumping new gear think of how it will work with that gear. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkeenan 13 #175 April 21, 2010 Quote...do you think waiting to clear the main is a waste of time? Yes. You should be sure that the main has actually released from both sides before pulling the reserve ripcord. But as far as purposely delaying the reserve pull in order for the main to get out of the way - That is not necessary. As soon as the risers are released (and nothing else is attached to you, i.e. lines, PC, etc.) the main is accelerating away from you and should not interfere with the reserve. Some people choose to not use an RSL-type system. There are various reasons for this. Since you use one, you have committed yourself to having your reserve activated immediately upon riser release. You cannot change this without releasing your RSL connection, something that would not be advised in the middle of a malfunction. The Skyhook does not activate the reserve any quicker than a standard RSL, but it accellerates reserve deployment by effectively "static-lining" the reserve to the departing main. This works to eliminate any reserve pilot chute hesitation. As with any of these "automatic" systems, you should practice and complete the manual reserve pull as part of your EPs. Any number of things can interfere with the "automatic" functions. Considering the time frame of most EP initiations, there may not be much spare time available to work with any anomaly which may occur. Kevin K._____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
