Melissa126 0 #1 October 11, 2011 Trying to figure out what happened and how to have it not happen again! Pulled a little under 4000 ft (a little bit of a hard pull but not extreme).. nothing happened, then I feel stuff bouncing around on my back, I BRIEFLY looked back and saw my bag and my pc dancing around. Twisted a little to see if I could clear a burble, nothing happened... by that point I had already fallen another 1400 feet and that was enough for me... cutaway, pulled reserve -- was under reserve by 2500ft. ...[terminal reserve ride... Ouch!!]. After I was open I looked back to try and spot my stuff, I saw my bag with the canopy halfway out of it, but not completely (it was completely out when we found it later, also none of the bands were broken when we found it). A few things: --PC was DEFINTELY cocked... I always do it/check it 3 times while packing. And I had 2 gear checks prior to boarding the plane... --I single my locking stows, and double the rest with rubber bands. --It did not stand me up at all, and was it was only about a foot or so off my back. --I didn't change anything about the way I pack. The main was kind of "shoved in" the bag, a little was sticking out but again not any differently than usual, could fabric have gotten caught in a grommet? A few things I have noticed: When I have a packer do my rig, I never feel hesitation after pulling. When I pack, sometimes I feel more of a hesitation/burble than when they do... A few friends have suggested getting my pc/kill line checked out. It's still fairly new, maybe a few hundred jumps on it. Will have my rigger check it out. Any ideas? **edited for wording** Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #2 October 11, 2011 1st off: from 4000 to 1400 is about 12 seconds. That's an awful long time. I mean a REALLY long time. How what do you do with the unstowed lines in the tray? How do you put the bag in the tray, and do you shimmy it or rotate it in place??Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Melissa126 0 #3 October 11, 2011 no no, I was under my reserve by 2500, I burned up 1400 feet before doing my eps.. sorry for the confusion... I put about 12-18" of excess line coiled in the tray then rotate the bag stows to the bottom. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
virgin-burner 1 #4 October 11, 2011 Quote And I had 2 gear checks prior to boarding the plane... there's your problem! “Some may never live, but the crazy never die.” -Hunter S. Thompson "No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try." -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NovaTTT 1 #5 October 11, 2011 Let's agree your PC was cocked and is in good condition. This then is most likely a packing issue. It could be that when you put the bag into the container the excess lines became entangled with the stowed lines, interfering with the bag launch. This could cause the bag to hesitate and 'dance' in the burble. It sounds like it was clearing and it's possible it could have deployed, but you took the right action cutting away and pulling your reserve - good job handling it. Pull - no joy - check (baglock!) - cutaway - pull! Be mindful of the amount of excess line you have, how you stow it, how you place the bag into the tray. Check with your local rigger or experienced packer if you think a hands-on demonstration will help. Cheers! ETA: You were stable when you pulled, right?"Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waveoff5500 0 #6 October 11, 2011 have you tried using the small rubber bands and single wrapping youre other line stows?"its just a normal day at the dropzone until its not" 1653 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #7 October 11, 2011 Interesting. How old is your pilot chute? Have a rigger check it for excessive porosity. How long is your bridle? Shorter ones are more likely to give hesitations. Also, rolling is okay for clearing the burble. I prefer a shoulders-level sit up to clear mine. Congrats on doing your EP's well. I don't like those low-drag cutaways. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Melissa126 0 #8 October 11, 2011 Hmm I can picture that. Yes, I was definitely stable while pulling. It was a little bit of a hard pull but not enough to turn me. Will have someone watch me pack the next time, and have the rigger double check the PC before he repacks it.. I couldn't tell you how old it was, when I got the rig the main had about 100 jumps on it, I put about 140 jumps on it. No, I have always used the same type of bands. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #9 October 11, 2011 Quote I burned up 1400 feet before doing my eps.. sorry for the confusion... Cool.. Maybe I didnt read the inital version of the post correctly.. Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Melissa126 0 #10 October 11, 2011 Quote Quote I burned up 1400 feet before doing my eps.. sorry for the confusion... Cool.. Maybe I didnt read the inital version of the post correctly.. Haha I wrote what I meant not what I said Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scrumpot 1 #11 October 11, 2011 Couple of possibilities, but one I've seen before (from the perspective of an AFFI who had to hand-launch the resultant "dancing bag" ) is the PC becoming "1/2-hitched" by the bridal, during a "weak throw" - which, if as you are reporting, you had a somewhat "harder pull" than usual, perhaps you did not get the PC fully and cleanly launched beyond bridal extension, contributing to this possibility? Quote A few things I have noticed: When I have a packer do my rig, I never feel hesitation after pulling. When I pack, sometimes I feel more of a hesitation/burble than when they do... No disrespect - You've now had 2 malfunctions/cut-aways in just 200 jumps attributable to your own packing/pack-jobs. The 1st one was a step-through, that you packed/closed without recognizing, now this. I would highly suggest a thorough review of your packing with someone very experienced and knowledgable, 1-on-1, first hand (and not trying to figure this out on the interwebs) - repeating your packing class(es) if previously taken, AND having someone actually supervise your following, subsequent at least 5-10 next pack-jobs from start to finish, until you both feel confident you've got it down, and thoroughly understand what you are doing (at each step) and why.coitus non circum - Moab Stone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Melissa126 0 #12 October 11, 2011 Quote Couple of possibilities, but one I've seen before (from the perspective of an AFFI who had to hand-launch the resultant "dancing bag" ) is the PC becoming "1/2-hitched" by the bridal, during a "weak throw" - which, if as you are reporting, you had a somewhat "harder pull" than usual, perhaps you did not get the PC fully and cleanly launched beyond bridal extension, contributing to this possibility? Quote A few things I have noticed: When I have a packer do my rig, I never feel hesitation after pulling. When I pack, sometimes I feel more of a hesitation/burble than when they do... No disrespect - You've now had 2 malfunctions/cut-aways in just 200 jumps attributable to your own packing/pack-jobs. The 1st one was a step-through, that you packed/closed without recognizing, now this. I would highly suggest a thorough review of your packing with someone very experienced and knowledgable, 1-on-1, first hand (and not trying to figure this out on the interwebs) - repeating your packing class(es) if previously taken, AND having someone actually supervise your following, subsequent at least 5-10 next pack-jobs from start to finish, until you both feel confident you've got it down, and thoroughly understand what you are doing (at each step) and why. What do you mean by 1/2 hitched? I don't understand. Since the first incident I did have someone watch me numerous times, it was a stupid overlook that would not be repeated. I have had a rigger, a coach, and a packer all watch me on several occasions since then. They did not tell me to change anything about the way I have bee npacking. This pack job I had also packed the same way. But I will have someone watch again just to ease my mind as well. I do believe that the PC may not have gotten a completely clean launch now that you mention it, because of the extra tug I gave it. It was a 'dancing bag' !! Thank you, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BoogeyMan 0 #13 October 11, 2011 QuoteHmm I can picture that. Yes, I was definitely stable while pulling. It was a little bit of a hard pull but not enough to turn me. Will have someone watch me pack the next time, and have the rigger double check the PC before he repacks it.. I couldn't tell you how old it was, when I got the rig the main had about 100 jumps on it, I put about 140 jumps on it. No, I have always used the same type of bands. Check your PC for wear, and the bridle for length and fraying. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scrumpot 1 #14 October 11, 2011 QuoteWhat do you mean by 1/2 hitched? If because of your harder-than normal PC extraction from the pouch, you did not get the PC fully extended out into clean air, and instead it dropped back into your burble - it is possible for the PC to get wrapped back through (or "1/2-hitched", it is a type of tension knot) a loop of bridal, and partially (or even completely) choked-off by the bridal wrapping around it. Picture your bridal all coming out and snaking around in the burble, because you did not extend it/stretch it with your extraction/throw, then, the PC getting into one of the loops and it all self-tightening around each other, just as the pin is pulled and the bag begins to extract ...but now you no longer have enough drag being supplied by the choked-off PC, to pull the bag free of your burble, to line stretch. Just enough drag/tension to keep the 1/2-hitch in place, and the PC choked off. - Until you chopped, and it cleared only once that tension was relieved. Just one possibility. QuoteSince the first incident I did have someone watch me numerous times, it was a stupid overlook that would not be repeated. I have had a rigger, a coach, and a packer all watch me on several occasions since then. You also state: QuoteA few things I have noticed: When I have a packer do my rig, I never feel hesitation after pulling. When I pack, sometimes I feel more of a hesitation/burble than when they do... Which indicates you are still doing something different than they are, and/or is being missed. Could be something as seemingly "simple" as how you are handling your excess bridal stowing, during the folding/packing of your PC. Here's the thing though... Again: None of us can (effectively) tell you / guess-diagnose this via the internet. That's why taking each and every phase of packing with you, and observing 1st-hand - then discussing and ASSURING you understand exactly what you are looking at and doing, during each of those phases - and thereby determining - to your full recognition/understanding - is still, really going to be the only way to get you to your most accurate answer. You asked for ideas. I've really only just supplied you with one possible one. FWIW. I hope it helps!coitus non circum - Moab Stone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deltron80 0 #15 October 11, 2011 I think it's important to mention that this malfunction occured after an all-girl 4-way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #16 October 11, 2011 Throw harder.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Melissa126 0 #17 October 12, 2011 Thank you for the explanation...That would make sense... definitely have the wheels turning in my head now, and as soon as I get my stuff all back together i'll have someone check out what i'm doing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Melissa126 0 #18 October 12, 2011 Quote I think it's important to mention that this malfunction occured after an all-girl 4-way. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Liemberg 0 #19 October 12, 2011 One would think female skydivers by now would have figured out that launching a pilotchute is different from dropping a handkerchief. "Whoever in discussion adduces authority uses not intellect but memory." - Leonardo da Vinci A thousand words... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Divalent 89 #20 October 12, 2011 Just a thought, but since you say that your pack jobs feel differently than those done by the packer, you might want to closely watch the packer pack your chute next time, and see if he/she does anything differently. Maybe even video it so you can go back later to confirm differences you think you saw. How do they stow the lines, cock (and later check) the PC, fold the PC and bridle, rout and store excess line in the container, orient the bag in the container, etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #21 October 12, 2011 QuoteThrow harder. This statement has always bothered me. You can’t throw a PC at 120 mph. The best you can do is to make sure you don’t release the PC until you are at full arm extension and your arm is on the same level as your body. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #22 October 12, 2011 Quote Quote Throw harder. This statement has always bothered me. You can’t throw a PC at 120 mph. The best you can do is to make sure you don’t release the PC until you are at full arm extension and your arm is on the same level as your body. Sparky Of course you can!!!!!! You can throw it at 180 in a sit, too! j/k But yes..I agree. You are certainly right in the sense you meant. I don't tell youngsters that though...I want them to let go of the damned thing instead of holding onto it. I tell them it's the girlfriend that cheated on you...get rid of her butt! I have one particular wall in my training room that I use for main deployment practice. I point out the numerous dings, dents, chipped paint and the missing light switch cover plate that previous students put there with the throw. I tell them to add their own dings. I should have them sign the dings on the wall. My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
david3 0 #23 October 13, 2011 QuoteI think it's important to mention that this malfunction occured after an all-girl 4-way. You, Melissa and who else? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Melissa126 0 #24 October 13, 2011 Quote Quote I think it's important to mention that this malfunction occured after an all-girl 4-way. You, Melissa and who else? me, lindsey, betsy, and christine Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deltron80 0 #25 October 13, 2011 Quote Quote I think it's important to mention that this malfunction occured after an all-girl 4-way. You, Melissa and who else? sadly, I was just a bystander Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
