AtmoBodyPilot 0 #1 February 12, 2012 Why This Is Important To unite Body Piloting, and all forms of Angled Flying under different terms of reference, into ONE community, and consideration for inclusion into the FAI/IPC at he next IPC Meeting in 2013. In 2012, 21 countries voted in favor. This was close to the two thirds required. 2012 is an important year in bringing this community together.Atmo Body Pilot Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 261 #2 February 12, 2012 Doesn't Religion go into Speaker's Corner? "The FAI's term" -- who cares? The term basically doesn't exist at the FAI site, other than that someone gave a presentation recently on atmonauti for consideration as a discipline. If the FAI calls Hitler a Nazi, that isn't an endorsement. I like to play with atmo, but I'd also enjoy beating to death atmo evangelists who believe it is the discovery of a whole new form of physics and flight. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AtmoBodyPilot 0 #3 February 12, 2012 Hi Peter, would you be in favor or against a proposal to bring this community together? We're not interested in the physics. Im hoping to get traction on a community that brings together skydivers of all nations who enjoy body piloting/angled flight. Hope to get round to doing some with you in the future. Cheers, M.Atmo Body Pilot Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AtmoBodyPilot 0 #4 February 12, 2012 http://www.ffp.asso.fr/IMG/pdf/AE_Competition_Rules_2011.pdf B-6. Diagonal Orientation Diagonal flying is any angle between 1° and 89°. The angles can be classified into three (3) major groups: • "Tracking" is horizontal movement with the torso predominantly horizontal with respect to the ground. • "Flock" is horizontal movement with the torso predominantly vertical with respect to the ground. • "Atmonauti" is horizontal movement with the torso at an angle between a "Track" and a "Flock", but preferred to be close to 45° with respect to the ground.Atmo Body Pilot Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #5 February 12, 2012 Quote We're not interested in the physics Strike One.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AtmoBodyPilot 0 #6 February 12, 2012 The physics have clearly been the basis for heated debate in the past... which is one sure way to incite fractions. This discussion is about a community hoping to compete with a structured competition format and MOP's. A common goal, or a united community sharing positive ideas and a means to promote structured competition and records is far more pertinent than all the theories on flight. Atmo Body Pilot Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cbrown1311 0 #7 February 12, 2012 Quotehttp://www.ffp.asso.fr/IMG/pdf/AE_Competition_Rules_2011.pdf B-6. Diagonal Orientation Diagonal flying is any angle between 1° and 89°. The angles can be classified into three (3) major groups: • "Tracking" is horizontal movement with the torso predominantly horizontal with respect to the ground. • "Flock" is horizontal movement with the torso predominantly vertical with respect to the ground. • "Atmonauti" is horizontal movement with the torso at an angle between a "Track" and a "Flock", but preferred to be close to 45° with respect to the ground. Correct me if I'm wrong, but last time I checked, having your torso vertical with respect to the ground is headdown and commonly referred to as freeflying. Horizontal movement in this configuration is extremely limited compared to either of the other two. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AtmoBodyPilot 0 #8 February 12, 2012 Yes you are correct. A flock is primarily in the vertical orientation, but is till considered to be horizontal movement (although limited as you say), Tracking is defined as having a horizontal torso, and Atmonauti as being the angles between these, but preferred to be around 45degrees. The USPA Director JAmes Hayhurst has suggested a new phrase which is Atmo Body Pilot. I think this is a fitting term as ultimately this is what flying on angle is all about...Atmo Body Pilot Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #9 February 12, 2012 It's certainly a different 'slant' on things. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #10 February 12, 2012 It's nice to know that my head down has a name other than what they're telling me now. I just tell 'em I'm an Atmo Guru! My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #11 February 12, 2012 Quote It's nice to know that my head down has a name other than what they're telling me now. I just tell 'em I'm an Atmo Guru! ...and when I turn Style, I'm the wizzard of dizzy! ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #12 February 12, 2012 Quoteone sure way to incite fractions. No wonder they're at war with the Decimals. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #13 February 12, 2012 Quote Quote one sure way to incite fractions. No wonder they're at war with the Decimals. Good 'point' ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 261 #14 February 12, 2012 Despite my being skeptical about some atmo-evangelists, clearly atmo is a different style of flying needing somewhat different skills, so as long as people in sufficient countries are doing it, then it makes sense to try to create an international discipline. But one question: Are there already atmo competitions, based on either artistic scores, and/or specific formations & maneuvers? Then there would be something to take to the FAI to show that a competition environment already exists, that the activity is mature enough and worthy of FAI time, something beyond just a fun new challenge. Maybe atmo enthusiasts just want a forum within the FAI to start to get together to discuss what possibilities for competition exist. So one could have Competition first, Recognition second, or do it the other way around. I'm thinking that having Competition first would make Recognition easier. But I know nothing about the FAI or the higher levels of atmonauti flight. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AtmoBodyPilot 0 #15 February 12, 2012 Heh Hehe... Well these terms only apply to what the FAI considers as diagonal orientations, and three orientations are described as tracking (horizontal torso), Flock (just of vertical), and Atmo (angles in between, preferred to be around 45)... So no, your head down is still a head down... Atmo Body Pilot Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AtmoBodyPilot 0 #16 February 12, 2012 Yeah, Actually what was presented at the IPC was Judging Criteria, Rules Documentation and Competition formars which were developed with the help of FAI FS and AE Judges. These have been used at Atmo comps since 2008, where ARW2 (2 way sequentials or relative work) is the primary comp format. The USPA members at the IPC were very impressed and have asked to sit on a working group to establish more formal competition in the US and North America. One primary problem is the various references used, which is why one term of reference would be important. Please visit www.para.co.za/documents/ssadiscipline docs If you have the time or interest you can check out the Atmo Manual of Procedures and also the comp docs... Thanks for your input! Chat to you soon. M Atmo Body Pilot Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #17 February 12, 2012 QuoteBut one question: Are there already atmo competitions, based on either artistic scores, and/or specific formations & maneuvers? Yes, it's called Free Style and thats where the correct version of the maneuver is routinely done, not the bastardized version that is called ATMO."It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #18 February 12, 2012 What's your angle? (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #19 February 12, 2012 QuoteA common goal, or a united community sharing positive ideas and a means to promote structured competition and records is far more pertinent than all the theories on flight Unless you plan to get out a protactor and measure angles, you're using too precise of a definition. When the orientation went from flat (RW) to upright (freefly) that was a clear and significant change. It was a full 90 degrees off, and easy to tell one from the other. You're trying to take a 45 degree slice of the rotation, and split it three ways to make your thing seem 'unique', but it's not. Take a look at any freefly routine in competition today, every one of them has broken the mold and incorporated flat flying into the routine. So clearly anything in between (like Atmo) is fair game. If your thing is really that great, build a routine around it and enter a freefly competition. The reason that freefly can exist is that it's different enough than flat flying to clearly be 'something esle', and that's it's 'free' in the sense that it covers a wide range of flying, styles and techniques. If you want to shove Atmo down everyone's throat so bad that you have to micro-define it to such a fine point that it creates limitations, who's going to be interested in that? Even with every axis available to them, the freeflyers got tired of that limiation, and began to flat fly as part of their routines. Don't expect much support, or long-term interest if you're going to put such strict limitations on the definition. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #20 February 13, 2012 Quote Quote If you want to shove Atmo down everyone's throat so bad that you have to micro-define it to such a fine point that it creates limitations, who's going to be interested in that? thousands of jumpers outside the USofA Quote Don't expect much support, or long-term interest if you're going to put such strict limitations on the definition. From the USofA. Various modes of Tracking/Atmo/Flocking are practiced and enjoyed by many many people the world over. Specific boogies and training camps are conducted regularly just not so much in the USofA. Let the sport evolve and call itself what ever it wants. It is not the sole domain of any nations. For the life of me I cant understand why so many Yanks get all pissy over it. If it's not your thing, go do your thing and allow other to do theirs. Some of you could well do with a course in Taxonomy and Nomenclature You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #21 February 13, 2012 QuoteVarious modes of Tracking/Atmo/Flocking are practiced and enjoyed by many many people the world over. Specific boogies and training camps are conducted regularly just not so much in the USofA. There are plenty of people doing the same in the US. This topic is different, this is about having Atmo recognized as a competition discipline, and he's put forth a set of degreee based measurements with which to classify Atmo from different types fo flight. How popular would those boggies or jumps be if you were 'disqualified' because the video revaled your body to be outside of the approved angles? Does that sound like something that 'many people are going to enjoy'? I'm not against Atmo, or calling it whatever you want, but when you have to measure the angle of your body to determine exactly what you're doing, I feel that's going a bit far, and takes some of the fun out of it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 93 #22 February 13, 2012 QuoteFor the life of me I cant understand why so many Yanks get all pissy over it. Because they were claiming to be doing things that were not true.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #23 February 13, 2012 Your ego knows no bounds. Get a grip.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
beowulf 1 #24 February 13, 2012 I think it's kind of silly and unnecessary. But good luck. I don't care if it's recognized or not. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #25 February 13, 2012 QuoteWhat's your angle? It's really pretty easy to figure the angle here; e = energy m = mass y = horizon line o = original angle n = line formed between head and feet So, if you really want to know what the angle of Atmo is . . . M*O*N*E*Yquade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
