flyer86 0 #1 April 17, 2012 Ok so I've searched as many threads on here as I can find with the keyword wingloading.. I have a question about my new canopy choice. First of all I have just over 40 jumps and halfway through my B-rels, I am 85kg with gear out the door and most of my jumps were on a Safire 210 which I find quite docile (I tried to get the most out of the canopy and learn something new on every jump- stalls,rear riser turns, braked turns etc..). My question is in regards to buying a rig with a 150 (wingloading would be around 1.25) I am jumping rented gear now and plan to do the next 10 or so jumps on a 190 and another 10 or 20 on a 170. Also I am looking into doing a canopy course on the 170 before I jumped the 150. I am interested in the 150 as I would like a canopy that I could stay on for a few hundred jumps and I have come across some great deals. But by no means will I jump it if I feel that I am not ready for it. I have heard of quite a few people jumping this wing loading for their first rig and just wanted to know what everyone thinks. My DZSO said that if I do a canopy course and feel comfortable to jump on one he wouldn't have a problem with it. Thanks in advance for any input. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #2 April 17, 2012 What kind of canopy? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
5.samadhi 0 #3 April 17, 2012 If you have people you can trust that will mentor/coach you then listen to them...that is what every student should be looking for. Not blind trust, but total trust...that means that you do not need to come online and ask strangers who do not know you. If you feel you need to come online and ask strangers what your wingloading should be, then that indicates that you do not have trust in whoever is coaching you (so you should listen to yourself why you do not have trust and TRUST yourself for not trusting them). In that case (which it appears you are in), I would follow Brian Germain's chart. I have followed this chart pretty much my entire time jumping and I can tell you it is very good. It is not too conservative and not too wild. You will be able to have fun on the wingloadings he recommends at the level you are at and still progress (somewhat) safely. No matter your wingloading you can die under a perfectly good main canopy. You should jump the canopy that is right for you for THIS jump...because THIS jump could be your last. edit - http://www.bigairsportz.com/pdf/bas-sizingchart.pdf Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likestojump 3 #4 April 17, 2012 Personally, I think it's a bad idea. But it also seems that in the US we do things more conservative than in Australia (assuming that's where you are due to B-rels reference). And to be clear - I prefer the more conservative approach. My first two canopies were a 230 and a 210 which gave me a .9 and a 1.0 WL respectively, and I am very glad that's the route I was recommended and chose to go with. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydude2000 3 #5 April 17, 2012 Hi Flyer, Welcome to the world of gear shopping! First thing's first, you should have some of your instructors debrief your landing and your pattern on video if possible. Also, there is a downsizing checklist and a wingload recommendation chart in the Swooping & Canopy forum here that you should have a look at. Consider that, on a 150, at your exit weight, you would be loading it at 1.24, which means you should have a minimum of 240 jumps before even THINKING of jumping a 150. I load about the same as you, and even with over 450 jumps, I've had moments where I was glad I was under my 170. Consider that downsizing isn't necessarily the only/best way to get more performance out of your flying. You can learn high performance maneuvers on your current canopy, and should, before moving onto a smaller wing. When shit hits the fan, you'll be happy you did. The canopy size is also just one of the things you can consider. Talk to your instructors about maybe flying a canopy with a different planform, in the same size, 7-cell vs. 9-cell, even different 9-cell canopies in the same size can fly very differently. You should be considering all these variables before worrying about downsizing. Good luck in your progression. Safe landings!! PULL!! or DIE!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davelepka 4 #6 April 17, 2012 QuoteMy question is in regards to buying a rig with a 150 (wingloading would be around 1.25) I have heard of quite a few people jumping this wing loading for their first rig and just wanted to know what everyone thinks One thing to consider is the size of the canopy and not just the WL. The smaller a canopy gets, the more sensitive it will be to inputs at a given WL. The USPA considers any canopy 150 or smaller to be 'high performance', and if you combine that with your 1.25 WL, you might be getting in too deep. What are you freefall interests? RW? Being a lighweight, you might end up wearing lead, and just a few pounds of lead will round you right up to 1.3 or more, and on a 'high performance' canopy. The difference in pack volume between a 150 and a 170 is not that great. If you're looking to buy a rig that will hold a 150 and not hold a 170, then you're setting yourself up for 100's of jumps packing a tight rig. The better idea is to find a rig that can take a 170, and put a 170 in it for 100 jumps or so. Then move down to a 150 and enjoy the easy packing. Cost-wise, you can buy and sell used canopies all day long with very little (or no) money out of pocket. If you get lucky, you could even make a few bucks selling a 170 and buying a 150. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #7 April 17, 2012 Wing loading is NOT the issue. Skill level is. Bluntly, if you think you are going to develop the skills necessary to move from 210 to 150 in 30 jumps, you are wrong. Dead wrong. Somebody is leading you astray or you're not listening to common sense advice or you just don't know what you don't know. You can easily hurt yourself and others no matter what wing loading you have if you don't know what you are doing and/or cannot do it with consistency even if you do know. Think about some day having to put your canopy into a small backyard....over some trees and power lines, with fences and storage sheds. Think about how much faster things are going to happen under that 150 as opposed to the 210. Are you ready for that yet? 30 jumps ain't a-gonna do it.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 94 #8 April 17, 2012 QuoteI am interested in the 150 as I would like a canopy that I could stay on for a few hundred jumps and I have come across some great deals. It should take you a few hundred jumps to get to that WL, but you are projecting that a 150 will still not be enough WL for very long. It is apparently true that larger canopies/rigs are not as common as smaller rigs on the used market. That likely drives a higher price for them. That should mean the resale value will also be good.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obelixtim 100 #9 April 17, 2012 QuoteIt is apparently true that larger canopies/rigs are not as common as smaller rigs on the used market. That likely drives a higher price for them. That should mean the resale value will also be good. Conversely, there are quite a few smaller ones that are quite cheap....prolly due to the bloodstains and bits of shattered human stuck to them...My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #10 April 17, 2012 Quote Quote It is apparently true that larger canopies/rigs are not as common as smaller rigs on the used market. That likely drives a higher price for them. That should mean the resale value will also be good. Conversely, there are quite a few smaller ones that are quite cheap....prolly due to the bloodstains and bits of shattered human stuck to them... Oh oh oh!!! Where???? Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
obelixtim 100 #11 April 17, 2012 QuoteOh oh oh!!! Where???? I'm sure Sangi will have one available....maybe two. Doubt if he'll have any use for them ever again.My computer beat me at chess, It was no match for me at kickboxing.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 94 #12 April 18, 2012 QuoteQuoteIt is apparently true that larger canopies/rigs are not as common as smaller rigs on the used market. That likely drives a higher price for them. That should mean the resale value will also be good. Conversely, there are quite a few smaller ones that are quite cheap....prolly due to the bloodstains and bits of shattered human stuck to them... I meant the larger ones were more expensive, being more rare. I realize now my earlier post said the opposite.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyer86 0 #13 April 18, 2012 Thanks for all of the advice guys, I appreciate it. The 150 is going to be off the cards for a few hundred jumps. Looking at some 190 fitted rigs now. Will try to get the most out of it before I think about going smaller. It is true that the smaller canopy fitted rigs are cheaper because everybody knows students need 170/190's and they take advantage of it which is how things work.. at least when I am ready to downsize I can get some decent cash for the 190 and get a really nice 170 Again I appreciate the info, I want to be jumping for the rest of my life, so there's no need to rush things. Blue skies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #14 April 18, 2012 Quote Again I appreciate the info, I want to be jumping for the rest of my life, so there's no need to rush things. Blue skies. Now THAT is impressive! Keep that good attitude and you'll increase your odds greatly. My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Joellercoaster 6 #15 April 19, 2012 QuoteLooking at some 190 fitted rigs now. Will try to get the most out of it before I think about going smaller. Smart. Wise. And as you suspect, you can guarantee an easy sale when you finally get there - it took me a day to sell my 190-sized complete rig, and exactly six minutes to sell the 170 that replaced it the next time.-- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #16 April 19, 2012 If you get a 7 cell like a spectre or a 9 cell like a pulse and then put a sabre 2 when you are ready. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
