Starting to freefly?

[skyllama29 0]

I just want to get a general consensus about when it would be considered an appropriate time for someone to start freeflying. I know a lot of people who started freeflying just after obtaining an A license and some who say that you should be totally proficient on your belly first. Please let me know what you think.

[billvon 2,463]

>I know a lot of people who started freeflying just after obtaining an
>A license and some who say that you should be totally proficient on
>your belly first.

Totally proficient? No. I think the minimum belly skills you need are the ability to do a 4-way (a 4-way that involves actually docking and turning points) and to break off safely. The ability to stay relative and keep track of each other, and the ability to track off and clear your airspace, are critical in _any_ kind of group skydiving.

[dharma1976 0]

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>I know a lot of people who started freeflying just after obtaining an
>A license and some who say that you should be totally proficient on
>your belly first.

Totally proficient? No. I think the minimum belly skills you need are the ability to do a 4-way (a 4-way that involves actually docking and turning points) and to break off safely. The ability to stay relative and keep track of each other, and the ability to track off and clear your airspace, are critical in _any_ kind of group skydiving.

after not following this and about 500 jumps later, I agree....

Cheers
Dave

http://www.skyjunky.com

CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing.

[skyllama29 0]

Really? 4 way even if they just want to start learning new body positions on their own? I agree with you 100% about the ability to track and clear airspace which is an A license requirement. I started freeflying with 36 jumps and I still have no desire for 4 way. So why should joe schmuck-a-telly be told he/she has to do 4 way first, before he/she can do what he/she wants? What do you think about someone just trying to get stable on their own for a little and then doing a 2 way freefly with someone experienced?

[billvon 2,463]

>4 way even if they just want to start learning new body positions on
>their own?

Yes.

>I agree with you 100% about the ability to track and clear airspace
>which is an A license requirement.

You can't track away from a formation and clear your airspace jumping by yourself, and jumping with just a coach does not give you a realistic breakoff. You need to be able to keep up with a base that's not compensating for you, then break off, keep several other people in sight, do a good flat track away from them (and get some decent distance) clear your airspace then open. To learn all that you have to jump with other people, people who are not going to go after you if you go low or whatever. And it is best to learn that with what you know already (which is belly flying) before moving on to new body positions.

>What do you think about someone just trying to get stable on their
> own for a little and then doing a 2 way freefly with someone
> experienced?

The first time they lose sight of the other jumper, they will become a hazard to themselves and the other jumper because they have never learned what you need to know to safely break off while keeping track of people.

[JohanW 0]

If your profile is correct and up to date, I'd say last year and when you had as many belly jumps as you do now total.

Interesting choice of main, BTW. (Not .. going .. there .. )

Johan.
I am. I think.

[skyllama29 0]

So if someone were to ask me about freeflying as long as they go solo, there is really no harm. I mean, making sure that they have an audible and helmet as well as the basic knowledge of what's going on. They should demonstrate awareness and ability to clear airspace on there belly proficiently before attempting to freefly in the same airspace as others, right? I just want to make sure this is what you are saying. Thank you for your input. It is very helpful.

[mdrejhon 8]

Freefly? What is freefly?

I've done a few 20-way attempts... Plenty of fun. Although I docked on several of those, most formations did not complete (there were 4 other low jumpers like me). I intend to keep being a bellyflyer until I manage to break some minor record (or maybe the Canadian Formation Record. Knock on wood. ha ha!) I will stick 4-ways through 20 ways for now, that's my current skill limit, and what my present flat-tracking skills very reasonably allow for.

I'm not what you call a good bellyflyer yet, but my skills are sufficient enough to be part of several 10+ ways now (in either the base, and by flying freely to my slot).

I almost don't remember my last bellyfly SOLO anymore -- almost all my solos have been tracking jumps (I think the last 10 out of 12 solo freefalls were tracking jumps to pratice my tracking!)

I think that on the last 40 jumps in the last two months they have all been 50-60% RW now (and about 25% of the last two months have been 6+ ways, though that's skewed somewhat by Deaf World Record)

So... what is this newfangled freefly thing? Maybe you can teach me. What is a headdown?

(just kidding. Yes, I intend to do a headdown sometime -- but not in a big hurry to do so. But I have to eventually, I'll need to sitfly before I can become a vidiot which isn't out of realm of possibility if my skills are ready for it. Who knows... But you can bet I will be a bad freeflyer at first, as I was a bellyflopper of a bellyflyer. Can easily fly to my quadrant even on the opposite side of a formation. But still a little shaky at docking on a fast-falling base though. Argh! I'm told I am getting close to nailing 20-ways reliably, thanks to a bunch of consecutive biggish-way jumps in Florida. I learned a lot about the science of burble already. And the frustration of getting low sometimes, and cupping like hell while avoiding going underneath formations. Dodging bellyflyer traffic while not impeding their progress to the base. And the excitement of a successful dock in a biggish-way. Never wrecked a formation thankfully, even though I ended up burbling myself away from the formation a couple of times in other unsuccessful dock attempts. Quite a learning experience beyond the 6-way and 7-way jumps I already did at Gananoque. At least I tracked much better than a few of them did! My tracking solos are paying off...)

[billvon 2,463]

>So if someone were to ask me about freeflying as long as they
>go solo, there is really no harm.

Assuming they are basically safe on their bellies, you have a few additional hazards with first time freefliers, even if they go solo:

1. During AFF they are taught that if things go wrong, pull and stop the skydive. Freeflyers CANNOT 'pull and stop the skydive,' their speeds are such that pulling before slowing down can damage their rig and/or injure them. So they need to change that bit of training.

2. A solo jumper who has learned to stop backsliding is likely going to backslide/drive like crazy when they start trying to sitfly. They need more exit separation than other freeflyers, and they need to know to face sideways to the line of flight (so they slide away from the jump run, not into the next group.)

3. Often, student gear is not safe to freefly with. They need gear appropriate to freeflying.

So I think you'd want to make sure those things are covered before anyone starts trying to freefly, even by themselves. It can be done safely, but cannot be done safely by someone recently off student status without further training/advice/experience (preferably all three.)

[Zoter 0]

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If your profile is correct and up to date, I'd say last year and when you had as many belly jumps as you do now total.

Interesting choice of main, BTW. (Not .. going .. there .. )
--

Even more interesting choice of Reserve......if thats correct.
F111 loaded at 1.8 <500jumps

[mattjw916 2]

Well it's probably a 143 not a 132 since there is no such thing... at least it's a PD at that loading.

Now... now... let's stay on topic here...

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[skyllama29 0]

No, it's not correct. I jump a smart 132 reserve, but my wing loading and reserve are not what we are talking about here. If you want to know more about what I jump and why I jump it then send me a private message. Thank you

[billvon 2,463]

>I jump a smart 132 reserve . . .

The Aerodyne Smart comes in 120 and 135 sq ft sizes.

[skyllama29 0]

oops... it's a 135

[Samurai136 0]

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What do you think about someone just trying to get stable on their own for a little and then doing a 2 way freefly with someone experienced?

If you're trying to learn free-flying/ Sitflying solo, you're wasting your money. The best way to spend that money is on a focused tunnel camp on RW and/or free-fly skills. Second best way to spend it; pay a coach to make sit-fly jumps with you. You will learn faster.

Ken

"Buttons aren't toys." - Trillian
Ken

[kelpdiver 2]

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If you're trying to learn free-flying/ Sitflying solo, you're wasting your money. The best way to spend that money is on a focused tunnel camp on RW and/or free-fly skills. Second best way to spend it; pay a coach to make sit-fly jumps with you. You will learn faster.

How does a tunnel RW camp help?

[Peej 0]

Hey man,

This question comes up a lot, there are a bunch of threads with various opinions here:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?do=search_results&search_forum=all&search_string=When+to+start+freefly%3F+&search_type=AND&search_fields=sb&search_time=&search_user_username=&sb=score&mh=25

Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky

[RunJct 0]

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If you're trying to learn free-flying/ Sitflying solo, you're wasting your money

I completely disagree with one part of this statement. First off, yes going at it alone is much, much, much harder and will take longer to learn but it's not wasting money.

Some of my most fun jumps were when I was doing solo sits trying to figure out how to get stable. I got coaching and it really helped, but those jumps before weren't at all wasting my money. I had a blast on them, I was just out in the sky doing my thing.

Yes, I also know that it could have been dangerous b/c I was backsliding and might have gone into someone's area, but I'm not discussing that, I'm just talking about the notion that I hear from many skydivers that a perfect jump (technically minded) is the only way to have fun. It's just not the case....every jump should be fun and therefore it's not a waste of money.

If "if" were a fifth, then we'd all be drunk

[lowie 0]

Surely if your aware of the run in direction and your facing across the flight direction there is little risk of flying/backsliding under others. IMHO the risks is only there if you lose directional awareness.

[kelpdiver 2]

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Surely if your aware of the run in direction and your facing across the flight direction there is little risk of flying/backsliding under others. IMHO the risks is only there if you lose directional awareness.

I guess that's a question to open up to the most experienced.

After the first couple sits, I was very aware of facing off flight direction, but was most sucessful doing something more like a stand on the left foot. When I tried to get more on both, I would fall over. Could I be side sliding at a significant speed doing this?