Don't Bounce a Newbie, I almost did...

[rehmwa 2]

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I disagree that you should be researching people's experience levels when selling gear. Its their business what they do with the canopy when they get it. Depriving people of personal autonomy is never a good thing. Treat people like imbeciles and they will be imbeciles.

I'll chime in.

1 - Disagree - the seller has the right to make his sale contingent upon any information he requires.

2 - Agree - the buyer should have the right to try and buy any piece of property he wishes

3 - If the buyer and the seller cannot agree upon the terms of the sale, either can walk away for any reason - or no reason, for that matter

4 - outside of the seller or buyer - I agree, no outside agency should be interfering with our personal transactions (we can leave parity of treatment of customers for social reasons to Speaker's Corner - that's not what we are talking about here.)


This example (had it been legit) is perfect - there was no outside agency forcing either party to make or not make the sale. The seller just had his own criteria for the sale and made a personal choice not to continue the transaction. I don't care what his reasons are (though I find them admirable, it's not my business).

The fact that we agree with his criteria is admirable. But not pertinent to the point you are making. I get that, but you only addressed the rights of the buyer, not the seller. Your point is equivalent to saying that I have no business denying a sale of a puppy to a known animal torturer. that's silly.

Add in the rights of the seller, then you have a good discussion.

This would be a different discussion - The idea that sellers should be more responsible as individuals without interference, vs a requirement to legislate via outside authority the same level of consideration shown in the example. That would generate a good discussion as people have different philosophies about personal responsibility vs forcing others to meet our standards.

In a perfect world, a newbie could buy a tiny little Velo - store it on the shelf until her receives sufficient training and experience, and then transition to it at that time. But, time and time again, we see that the newbies are stupid about it. So I have no idea with the sellers establishing a "Personal" sales criteria.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[sundevil777 93]

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name a difference, if you want to know specifically the argument in political philosophy is an argument against any drug laws pharmaceutical or non-pharmaceutical (recreational).

Any 'collateral damage' you could describe (ie crackhead goes crazy and murders innocent person) is outweighed by the preservation of autonomy in the individual. If you weight one aspect heavily enough any consequence is acceptable.

OK, I'll go with a very selfish perspective, and say that a 'collateral damage' that matters to me is that when severe injury happens, it often stops jumping for a long time and many people go home for the day. I don't get to jump all day every day of every weekend, and I don't like to have my fun ruined by such incidents. A typical sprained ankle by a student is nothing compared to the interruption that a high speed swoop gone bad will cause. There, you've got an impact to me that is very important, to me.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[billvon 2,400]

>Why is a long-distance transaction any different?

Just because it's harder to get a sense of who the person really is. That's why I do the "so tell me someone we both know" thing. Then I can ask them.

[jacketsdb23 45]

I have a velo ad in classifieds now. I ask them to provide references in any reply and make it known that I will be checking them prior to any sale. Hopefully that keeps some of the inexperienced away.

I'd rather sit on the canopy forever, than sell it to someone who is unqualified.

Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen
God is Good
Beer is Great
Swoopers are crazy.

[theonlyski 3]

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I have a velo ad in classifieds now. I ask them to provide references in any reply and make it known that I will be checking them prior to any sale. Hopefully that keeps some of the inexperienced away.

I'd rather sit on the canopy forever, than sell it to someone who is unqualified.

If I buy it, will you teach me to swoop?

It's only a 100ft² downsize for me!

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[av8rdav 2]

The only problem I have with paypal is paypal itstself. They can and have locked my funds in the account, for no reason, and I never got them back.

Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
-Benjamin Franklin-

[TriGirl 268]

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DZ.com is full of these cashiers check scammers. DO NOT ACCEPT A CHECK of any kind.

That isn't an accurate statement (not the scammers part, the don't take a check part).

Checks aren't automatically bad. You just have to understand how they can be used fraudulently and take precautions against it.

That's what I thought when I read his statement as well. I paid for my canopy by check, from a classified ad right here on DZ.com. We didn't use a rigger escrow, either. I sent him a check, he waited until it cleared, and then he sent the canopy.

I did purchase from a dealer, though. He was selling off his previous year demo models. So, I trusted him a bit more to cash the check and actually get the money before sending the purchase to me, without worrying that he would keep the money and not send the canopy.

I did have a rigger who was willing to work the escrow, in case the seller decided he needed it, but it all worked out as you would hope an honest deal would play. And I have an AWESOME canopy out of the deal!

See the upside, and always wear your parachute! -- Christopher Titus

Shut Up & Jump!

[devildog 0]

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The only problem I have with paypal is paypal itstself. They can and have locked my funds in the account, for no reason, and I never got them back.

There have been a few class actions suits against PP (which PP lost) for just this reason. If you want help / general info on the matter, go here: http://www.paypalsucks.com/

You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.

[likestojump 3]

We've discussed this before. Many times.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4305669

Ever ran a business that accepts credit cards through a merchant account ? Guess what, you get headaches too.

Your alternatives :
1) Ask for a money order/cashiers check - you will loose a large percentage of customers, as many are unwilling to do that. Ironically, many are unwilling because they are afraid of getting scammed.

2) Sell local only, for cash - you will be inundated with people checking or wanting to check your stuff out at all sorts of weird times, many times not keeping their appointments, and many times showing up and talking your ear off and still not buying.

Start using a high-fee broker and won't have headaches. Of course then you will have much lower pennies on the dollar.

no free lunch, never was, never will be.

[devildog 0]

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We've discussed this before. Many times.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4305669

Ever ran a business that accepts credit cards through a merchant account ? Guess what, you get headaches too.

Your alternatives :
1) Ask for a money order/cashiers check - you will loose a large percentage of customers, as many are unwilling to do that. Ironically, many are unwilling because they are afraid of getting scammed.

2) Sell local only, for cash - you will be inundated with people checking or wanting to check your stuff out at all sorts of weird times, many times not keeping their appointments, and many times showing up and talking your ear off and still not buying.

Start using a high-fee broker and won't have headaches. Of course then you will have much lower pennies on the dollar.

no free lunch, never was, never will be.

Oh I know. I'm not saying there aren't problems accepting credit cards. But Paypal has long been practicing a policy where they will literally freeze your account for zero reason (no one even has to complain / contest a charge), and if you're the unlucky guy/gal/business hit with it, you'll be spending months getting it back. Like I said, there have been a few class actions suits (I was part of one of the first) that sued and won.

Anywho, I didn't mean to throw this off on a tangent, just thought the link might be helpful to some.

You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions.