sabre_jilly 0 #1 November 17, 2005 I donated blood today and was told that after donating i cant jump for at least two months, preferably three, because of drop in red blood cell count, the cells which deliver oxygen around the body. Aparently at such altitudes the body wouldn't have enough oxygen..... But is this strictly true and would it actually be dangerous to jump, or is it just one of these precautionary things people say, and could it be cut down to say, a few weeks?! jilly ;-) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #2 November 17, 2005 2-3 months? I guess they don't want 'skydiver' blood. I don't think it takes that long to regenerate the red blood cells. I used that excuse not to donate during racing season, but I've never read an advisory in Triathlete magazine to do it at least 2 months before a race. Who knows a more precise answer? I'd think a week would be plenty, but you could always take a lift and if you feel light headed, not jump. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #3 November 17, 2005 I've jumped a week after donating with no ill effects. Two weeks is probably a safer bet, depending on your body size, overall fitness, type of donation etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RogerRamjet 0 #4 November 17, 2005 Hmmm, the Z-Hills boogie has a mobile blood donation unit there during the meet. Donate and get a free jump ticket... maybe someone should ask a few questions about this? See this thread: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1928550;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread ----------------------- Roger "Ramjet" Clark FB# 271, SCR 3245, SCS 1519 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
idoru99 0 #5 November 17, 2005 I was told to wait a week when I asked the red cross about it. <><><><><><><><><><><> The greatest risk you take in life is the risk you don't take. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #6 November 17, 2005 That sounds like BS to me. I've jumped the day after donating, many times. Never had a problem. I ain't no doctor, I just know that it hasn't bothered me. It might be a good idea to go light on alcohol that night. And maybe avoid hanging outside the Otter on the arm with the puncture mark, to keep the hole from opening back up (euuww!). Go jump. If you feel woozy on jump run, ride the plane down. But I don't think you'll have a problem. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TheBachelor 5 #7 November 17, 2005 I've also jumped the day after donating many times, with no problems. I guess everyone is different, so maybe some people would have a problem...There are battered women? I've been eating 'em plain all of these years... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IanHarrop 37 #8 November 17, 2005 I'm a fairly regular donor - 119 times so far. I was told to wait 3 days after donating whole blood, I can jump the same day when I donate plasma."Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Superman32 0 #9 November 17, 2005 That is just ridiculous If they so much blood that you are so severly hypovolimic, you should have your head check instead of your veins. Inveniam Viam aut Faciam I'm back biatches! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Superman32 0 #10 November 17, 2005 While in college, and a short time after donating blood, I received some junk mail from a blood bank -- It scare the shit out of me because, I was certain that it was the red cross contacting me because they had found something in my blood. Inveniam Viam aut Faciam I'm back biatches! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #11 November 17, 2005 Jumped within a day or two of donating before with no trouble. Waiting months seems like an uninformed recommendation."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leesamsiel 0 #12 November 17, 2005 QuoteI donated blood today and was told that after donating i cant jump for at least two months, preferably three, because of drop in red blood cell count...............or is it just one of these precautionary things people say, and could it be cut down to say, a few weeks?! Two months? I don't think so. Maybe there was a misunderstanding between you and the blood bank technician who instructed you. He/she should have advised you to not indulge in very strenuous activity for 12 - 24 hrs because your blood volume would be slightly lower than normal. (Actually due to rapid fluid shifts between body fluid compartments, there should be little change in your blood volume in a matter of 1 hour after a single unit blood donation assuming you were not dehydrated when you walked into the blood bank.) After that, if you are in generally good health, you'd be OK to do anything you wish. By drinking plenty of fluids shortly before and after your donation, you can minimize this low volume problem. It will take longer, about 7 to 14 days, depending upon your overall health and availability of substrate in your body (such as vitamins and elements needed for red blood cell production) to replace the red cell mass. Red blood cells carry the oxygen in your blood, but after a one unit donation you have only lost about 7% of your total red cell mass. Your body has built in compensatory mechanisms to accommodate such a small loss of red cells. This means your hemoglobin, although slightly lower than normal, should be adequate immediately after donation to continue doing whatever activities you normally indulge as long as your blood volume has been replaced. How the blood donation affects you also depends upon your lean body weight. A fit (not obese*) 200 lb male has about 15 - 16 pints of blood in his body. A fit 110 lb woman, only about 8.5 - 9 pints. The same amount of blood is taken from both individuals during a donation, so the 110 lb woman is going to be losing a greater fraction of her available blood volume which could cause more profound physiologic effects immediately after donation. Individuals under 110 lbs, no matter how fit, are usually not allowed to donate blood for this reason. I hope this information is useful for all skydivers who are blood donors. L.S. (Sometime skydiver, sometimes surgeon.) *Since fatty tissue is relatively avascular, obese individuals have a lower blood volume in relation to their total body weight than lean individuals. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jackpunx 0 #13 November 17, 2005 Again.. I’m very impressed and surprised by the wide range of people on this board Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AFFI 0 #14 November 17, 2005 I always heard that the day of giving blood is a goood evening to go drinking but get a designated driver! The SIM states on page 21 "The instructor also needs to know about any recent donations of blood." but there is no time table given, if it is the IRM I do not remember. The DZ policy where I work is in the last 24 hours for Scuba or Blood donations but after reading this thread I feel compelled to invistigate it further. I have a good friend who is an MD, I will send her an inquiry...Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,651 #15 November 17, 2005 QuoteRed blood cells carry the oxygen in your blood, but after a one unit donation you have only lost about 7% of your total red cell mass. Your body has built in compensatory mechanisms to accommodate such a small loss of red cells. This means your hemoglobin, although slightly lower than normal, should be adequate immediately after donation to continue doing whatever activities you normally indulge as long as your blood volume has been replaced. But remember that when you are at altitude you are using up some of that reserve oxygen capacity. If you would normally need to go on O2 at 15,000ft msl, you will need it at a slightly lower altitude with a 7% compromised circulatory system. The FAA's policy for pilots states "An airman who has donated 200cc. or greater blood for plasmapheresis or blood should not fly for at least 24 hours." For new donation techniques such as "Double Red Cell Pherisis" it is suggested that pilots wait at least 48 hours before flying. And there's this: HEALTH FACTORS AFFECTING PILOT PERFORMANCE The most common form of hypemic hypoxia is carbon monoxide poison-ing. Hypemic hypoxia also can be caused by the loss of blood from a blood donation. Blood can take several weeks to return to normal following a donation. Although the effects of the blood loss are slight at ground level, there are risks when flying during this time.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dorbie 0 #16 November 18, 2005 http://www.leftseat.com/blood.htm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kevinwhelan 0 #17 November 18, 2005 Here in Ireland they wont take your blood if you tell them you skydive regularly "be honest with yourself. Why do I want to go smaller? It is not going to make my penis longer." ~Brian Germain, on downsizing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites IanHarrop 37 #18 November 18, 2005 QuoteHere in Ireland they wont take your blood if you tell them you skydive regularly On the other hand - here in Canada they won't take your blood if you've spent 3 months in Ireland (Actually its any where in Europe. If a person was there during the mad cow thing they can't donate here)"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,651 #19 November 18, 2005 QuoteQuoteHere in Ireland they wont take your blood if you tell them you skydive regularly On the other hand - here in Canada they won't take your blood if you've spent 3 months in Ireland (Actually its any where in Europe. If a person was there during the mad cow thing they can't donate here) New trivia question - What does skydiving have in common with Mad Cow Disease?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mattlyle 0 #20 November 18, 2005 I give blood a lot too... usually the double red cell donation (they take 2 units of red cells, but give me back all my platelets and plasma) and I'm fine within a couple days. I usually just try to give before Thursday and I'm fine for the weekend. Did it Friday morning once and the first load Saturday I learned what hypoxia starts to feel like... light headed, nausea, yea.... fun! Evidently you need those red blood cells I've asked before and they just say to give it a couple days and if I feel fine, then use good judgment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #21 November 18, 2005 QuoteNew trivia question - What does skydiving have in common with Mad Cow Disease? I'm going to stop landing near the cows at Hollister. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AFFI 0 #22 November 18, 2005 QuoteI'm going to stop landing near the cows at Hollister. Hey, there is no need to stay away from my sister! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites leesamsiel 0 #23 November 19, 2005 QuoteBut remember that when you are at altitude you are using up some of that reserve oxygen capacity. If you would normally need to go on O2 at 15,000ft msl, you will need it at a slightly lower altitude with a 7% compromised circulatory system. Not necessarily. If you donate a single unit of blood and your hemoglobin (normal: 13 - 15 gm%) drops from 14 gm% to 13 or even 12 gm%, an otherwise healthy individual would not notice any change in his/her activity tolerance after several hours, even at altitude. (I can assure you this is true from numerous personal experiences.) In fact, using the most sophisticated devices for measuring human physiologic and biochemical parameters, you could not tell they donated a unit of blood two hours after the donation. Forget about blood donation for a minute. Your circulating blood volume may actually vary as much as several percent from time to time depending upon mundane behavior such as the amount of fluid you consume in a 24 hr period. (Beer counts as fluid, but it is also a diuretic.) Undiagnosed diabetics can easily be 7% dehydrated and there are thousands of them in the U.S., probably some of whom are skydivers. With the compensatory mechanisms our bodies have built into them, 7% is not a great variance in blood volume. There are people walking the streets with chronic hemoglobins of 5 or 6 gm%, and they have no symptoms. I would bet there are a few people skydiving today from 13,000' with a hemoglobin less than 10 gm%, and they don't even know it, nor do they feel short of breath. The partial pressure of O2 in that person's blood at altitude is no less than someone with normal hemoglobin, although his blood has a slightly reduced total capacity for carrying oxygen. The effects of a below normal hemoglobin would be exaggerated in a smoker because of carbon monoxide in cig. smoke (see below). The human body has redundancies built into its ability to carry oxygen to provide for these deficiencies (such as a shift in the oxyhemoglobin dissociation curve --- GOOGLE this for more info). These redundancies are too technical to go into here. QuoteThe FAA's policy for pilots states "An airman who has donated 200cc. or greater blood for plasmapheresis or blood should not fly for at least 24 hours." For new donation techniques such as "Double Red Cell Pherisis" it is suggested that pilots wait at least 48 hours before flying. And there's this: HEALTH FACTORS AFFECTING PILOT PERFORMANCE The most common form of hypemic hypoxia is carbon monoxide poisoning. Hypemic hypoxia also can be caused by the loss of blood from a blood donation. Blood can take several weeks to return to normal following a donation. Although the effects of the blood loss are slight at ground level, there are risks when flying during this time. Carbon monoxide (CO) poisoning is an entirely different problem. You would have to lose several units of blood to have the same profound effects CO has even in low exposures. CO has an affinity for hemoglobin 210 times stronger than oxygen. (Smokers take note.) So it binds the site on the hemoglobin molecule where O2 attaches and greatly impairs the ability of hemoglobin to take up O2. At sea level, 21% of the air is oxygen. As little as 0.1% - 0.2% of CO in the ambient air can be lethal. There have been many elegant studies measuring the effects of blood loss on the human physiology of which I am sure the FAA is well aware. The FAA makes these extravagantly conservative recommendations to err on the safe side and to cover all possibly circumstances so they can never be accused of permitting someone to pilot a plane in an impaired state. That's fine with me. Many pilots do not know if they become anemic between their required physical exams, so a single unit blood donation may affect them where a completely healthy individual (with a normal hemoglobin) would be unaffected. Long story short: a normal, healthy, well-hydrated individual should be safe skydiving within 12 - 24 hours of a single unit blood donation. People with chronic lung or heart disease, history of stroke, heavy smokers, anemics, diabetics, people on diuretics, and elderly individuals should get advice from their personal physicians. The compensatory mechanisms of these individuals will not be as efficient in making up for the blood donation as rapidly as in normal individuals. L.S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,651 #24 November 19, 2005 On the whole, I prefer the FAA's conservative approach to your "not necessarily".... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites sd-slider 0 #25 November 20, 2005 I donate every month (Plasma) and I usually do it on Thursdays and I jump the following Saturday.... Of course I'm a "Big-Mutha" and a pint just leaves one of my fingers kinda' deflated lookin'Anvil Brother #69 Sidelined with a 5mm C5-C6 herniated disk... Back2Back slammers and 40yr old fat guys don't mix! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
AFFI 0 #14 November 17, 2005 I always heard that the day of giving blood is a goood evening to go drinking but get a designated driver! The SIM states on page 21 "The instructor also needs to know about any recent donations of blood." but there is no time table given, if it is the IRM I do not remember. The DZ policy where I work is in the last 24 hours for Scuba or Blood donations but after reading this thread I feel compelled to invistigate it further. I have a good friend who is an MD, I will send her an inquiry...Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,651 #15 November 17, 2005 QuoteRed blood cells carry the oxygen in your blood, but after a one unit donation you have only lost about 7% of your total red cell mass. Your body has built in compensatory mechanisms to accommodate such a small loss of red cells. This means your hemoglobin, although slightly lower than normal, should be adequate immediately after donation to continue doing whatever activities you normally indulge as long as your blood volume has been replaced. But remember that when you are at altitude you are using up some of that reserve oxygen capacity. If you would normally need to go on O2 at 15,000ft msl, you will need it at a slightly lower altitude with a 7% compromised circulatory system. The FAA's policy for pilots states "An airman who has donated 200cc. or greater blood for plasmapheresis or blood should not fly for at least 24 hours." For new donation techniques such as "Double Red Cell Pherisis" it is suggested that pilots wait at least 48 hours before flying. And there's this: HEALTH FACTORS AFFECTING PILOT PERFORMANCE The most common form of hypemic hypoxia is carbon monoxide poison-ing. Hypemic hypoxia also can be caused by the loss of blood from a blood donation. Blood can take several weeks to return to normal following a donation. Although the effects of the blood loss are slight at ground level, there are risks when flying during this time.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dorbie 0 #16 November 18, 2005 http://www.leftseat.com/blood.htm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kevinwhelan 0 #17 November 18, 2005 Here in Ireland they wont take your blood if you tell them you skydive regularly "be honest with yourself. Why do I want to go smaller? It is not going to make my penis longer." ~Brian Germain, on downsizing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
IanHarrop 37 #18 November 18, 2005 QuoteHere in Ireland they wont take your blood if you tell them you skydive regularly On the other hand - here in Canada they won't take your blood if you've spent 3 months in Ireland (Actually its any where in Europe. If a person was there during the mad cow thing they can't donate here)"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,651 #19 November 18, 2005 QuoteQuoteHere in Ireland they wont take your blood if you tell them you skydive regularly On the other hand - here in Canada they won't take your blood if you've spent 3 months in Ireland (Actually its any where in Europe. If a person was there during the mad cow thing they can't donate here) New trivia question - What does skydiving have in common with Mad Cow Disease?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattlyle 0 #20 November 18, 2005 I give blood a lot too... usually the double red cell donation (they take 2 units of red cells, but give me back all my platelets and plasma) and I'm fine within a couple days. I usually just try to give before Thursday and I'm fine for the weekend. Did it Friday morning once and the first load Saturday I learned what hypoxia starts to feel like... light headed, nausea, yea.... fun! Evidently you need those red blood cells I've asked before and they just say to give it a couple days and if I feel fine, then use good judgment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #21 November 18, 2005 QuoteNew trivia question - What does skydiving have in common with Mad Cow Disease? I'm going to stop landing near the cows at Hollister. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #22 November 18, 2005 QuoteI'm going to stop landing near the cows at Hollister. Hey, there is no need to stay away from my sister! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
leesamsiel 0 #23 November 19, 2005 QuoteBut remember that when you are at altitude you are using up some of that reserve oxygen capacity. If you would normally need to go on O2 at 15,000ft msl, you will need it at a slightly lower altitude with a 7% compromised circulatory system. Not necessarily. If you donate a single unit of blood and your hemoglobin (normal: 13 - 15 gm%) drops from 14 gm% to 13 or even 12 gm%, an otherwise healthy individual would not notice any change in his/her activity tolerance after several hours, even at altitude. (I can assure you this is true from numerous personal experiences.) In fact, using the most sophisticated devices for measuring human physiologic and biochemical parameters, you could not tell they donated a unit of blood two hours after the donation. Forget about blood donation for a minute. Your circulating blood volume may actually vary as much as several percent from time to time depending upon mundane behavior such as the amount of fluid you consume in a 24 hr period. (Beer counts as fluid, but it is also a diuretic.) Undiagnosed diabetics can easily be 7% dehydrated and there are thousands of them in the U.S., probably some of whom are skydivers. With the compensatory mechanisms our bodies have built into them, 7% is not a great variance in blood volume. There are people walking the streets with chronic hemoglobins of 5 or 6 gm%, and they have no symptoms. I would bet there are a few people skydiving today from 13,000' with a hemoglobin less than 10 gm%, and they don't even know it, nor do they feel short of breath. The partial pressure of O2 in that person's blood at altitude is no less than someone with normal hemoglobin, although his blood has a slightly reduced total capacity for carrying oxygen. The effects of a below normal hemoglobin would be exaggerated in a smoker because of carbon monoxide in cig. smoke (see below). The human body has redundancies built into its ability to carry oxygen to provide for these deficiencies (such as a shift in the oxyhemoglobin dissociation curve --- GOOGLE this for more info). These redundancies are too technical to go into here. QuoteThe FAA's policy for pilots states "An airman who has donated 200cc. or greater blood for plasmapheresis or blood should not fly for at least 24 hours." For new donation techniques such as "Double Red Cell Pherisis" it is suggested that pilots wait at least 48 hours before flying. And there's this: HEALTH FACTORS AFFECTING PILOT PERFORMANCE The most common form of hypemic hypoxia is carbon monoxide poisoning. Hypemic hypoxia also can be caused by the loss of blood from a blood donation. Blood can take several weeks to return to normal following a donation. Although the effects of the blood loss are slight at ground level, there are risks when flying during this time. Carbon monoxide (CO) poisoning is an entirely different problem. You would have to lose several units of blood to have the same profound effects CO has even in low exposures. CO has an affinity for hemoglobin 210 times stronger than oxygen. (Smokers take note.) So it binds the site on the hemoglobin molecule where O2 attaches and greatly impairs the ability of hemoglobin to take up O2. At sea level, 21% of the air is oxygen. As little as 0.1% - 0.2% of CO in the ambient air can be lethal. There have been many elegant studies measuring the effects of blood loss on the human physiology of which I am sure the FAA is well aware. The FAA makes these extravagantly conservative recommendations to err on the safe side and to cover all possibly circumstances so they can never be accused of permitting someone to pilot a plane in an impaired state. That's fine with me. Many pilots do not know if they become anemic between their required physical exams, so a single unit blood donation may affect them where a completely healthy individual (with a normal hemoglobin) would be unaffected. Long story short: a normal, healthy, well-hydrated individual should be safe skydiving within 12 - 24 hours of a single unit blood donation. People with chronic lung or heart disease, history of stroke, heavy smokers, anemics, diabetics, people on diuretics, and elderly individuals should get advice from their personal physicians. The compensatory mechanisms of these individuals will not be as efficient in making up for the blood donation as rapidly as in normal individuals. L.S. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,651 #24 November 19, 2005 On the whole, I prefer the FAA's conservative approach to your "not necessarily".... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sd-slider 0 #25 November 20, 2005 I donate every month (Plasma) and I usually do it on Thursdays and I jump the following Saturday.... Of course I'm a "Big-Mutha" and a pint just leaves one of my fingers kinda' deflated lookin'Anvil Brother #69 Sidelined with a 5mm C5-C6 herniated disk... Back2Back slammers and 40yr old fat guys don't mix! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
