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Marisan

HP From an Old Fart

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Don't you think this keeping score to make your point is getting a little morbid?



Unfortunately the point is being made...but he's not the one doing it. :|



Exactly - the point is being made elsewhere.

I think this thread could be laid to rest. I am getting a "See - I was right again" feeling from it which is in poor taste.

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Don't you think this keeping score to make your point is getting a little morbid?



No I don't!

You in the northern hemisphere are just getting into summer, the prime dying season.

14 people died in 2011 from high performance canopy landings or collisions.

You guys look like doubling that this year.

Is that something to be proud of?

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You have done a great job of missing my point.



So what is your point?

How many more people have to die under a perfectly good canopy for you to realise that you have a problem.

Or is it that you think these deaths are merely collateral damage and, as such, are acceptable so you can enjoy your swooping?

No death whilst skydiving is acceptable.

They may be unavoidable but they are, by no means, acceptable!

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Don't you think this keeping score to make your point is getting a little morbid?



No I don't!

You in the northern hemisphere are just getting into summer, the prime dying season.

14 people died in 2011 from high performance canopy landings or collisions.

You guys look like doubling that this year.

Is that something to be proud of?



Worldwide there were 31 fatalities under open canopies in 2011. But then again who is counting. That would be morbid. [:/]

Sparky
My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

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in reply to "14 people died in 2011 from high performance canopy landings or collisions.

You guys look like doubling that this year.

Is that something to be proud of?
"

..........................................

Hi Marisan , good on you for fighting the good fight.

here's what we're up against.

Recently I landed into wind ( a steady 15mph ) and the DZ safety officer tried to make me buy beer.(what a fucking bozo he was !)
Apparently I was supposed to land (crash ) downwind like everyone else.
For the rest of the day hardly anyone stood up their landings, instead creaming in downwind , newbies included :S.

I landed into wind for the next 2 jumps and was prepared to be grounded, banned even punched the fuck up , but NOT buy beer.

These HP downwindy guys are just basically STUPID.! and I'm thinking a bit malevolent. Like crazed dogs thinning the pack . they've thinned it all right. I think there was a max of 2 females on the Dz amoungst these dumb bruisers...

Until basic aeronautical common sense pervades skydiving again we are going to see more unnecessary deaths .... HP + Newbies = carnage.
HP + experience= take ur chances like always.

onwards :)

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Recently I landed into wind ( a steady 15mph ) and the DZ safety officer tried to make me buy beer.(what a fucking bozo he was !)
Apparently I was supposed to land (crash ) downwind like everyone else.



You are part of the problem too, apparently. Choosing to land against traffic is irresponsible. Now, I'd argue that it's equally as irresponsible for the other jumpers to have set the landing direction to downwind, especially in winds like that, but the fact remains that unless you landed in a designated area going in the direction you wanted (and by your count it sounds like this is not the case), then you endangered everyone else with your EQUALLY selfish actions.

Next time, don't jump until they fix the landing direction, jump on a pass that's landing into the wind, OR you can land in the same direction as everyone else on your pass.

Ian
Performance Designs Factory Team

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>Recently I landed into wind ( a steady 15mph ) and the DZ safety officer tried to make
>me buy beer.(what a fucking bozo he was !)
>Apparently I was supposed to land (crash ) downwind like everyone else

Yes, you were. Landing against traffic is a good way to kill someone. Just asking you to buy beer was being pretty nice.

If you can't land your canopy in slight downwinds - either get more canopy training or upsize your canopy to one you can handle.

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Back to the original question.

This is all relative to the skills level. High performance can be a heavily loaded 210.

Nowadays with all the canopy pilots, the benchmark is set on 90velo's etc.

I tend to match it up with your skills, directly. Once you have mastered the brian germain basic skills set, and more on a certain canopy, and you can downsize/profile change, and then perform the same skills over and over again, without crashing it, I suppose then that is not so much of a high performance canopy any more. Anyways. I jump a 150 eliptical. To me, that is high performance, I can land it, and downwind it etc, but I will not downsize, purely cause I am not THAT skilled to do the pond thing, and I have lost a lot of friends that way. I am confortable where I am now.
You have the right to your opinion, and I have the right to tell you how Fu***** stupid it is.
Davelepka - "This isn't an x-box, or a Chevy truck forum"
Whatever you do, don't listen to ChrisD.

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in reply to "Landing against traffic is a good way to kill someone."
........................................

Last and ONLY canopy in the sky each time.
Sorry buddy, NOT prepared to land downwind in 15mph wind. We used to call this common sense.

I did this fully mindful of the risks .... and the beer rules ;)

After a thorough risk assessment I decided that the biggest risk to me landing last , into the wind , was from all the other bozos on the ground who insisted on downwind HP landings .... and were encouraging others newbies included to do the same.

Sorry NOT gunna do it , if you let these twits force you to land downwind then in my books you're a little lamby baa baaa baaaa :D

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in reply to "Landing against traffic is a good way to kill someone."
........................................

Last and ONLY canopy in the sky each time.
Sorry buddy, NOT prepared to land downwind in 15mph wind. We used to call this common sense.

I did this fully mindful of the risks .... and the beer rules ;)

After a thorough risk assessment I decided that the biggest risk to me landing last , into the wind , was from all the other bozos on the ground who insisted on downwind HP landings .... and were encouraging others newbies included to do the same.

Sorry NOT gunna do it , if you let these twits force you to land downwind then in my books you're a little lamby baa baaa baaaa :D


I agree its your parachute jump, nobody should force you to land downwind in 15mph if you dont want to. What a stupid little trend going on when the ones landing with 2:1 HP canopies are forcing everybody else on the load to downwind it.

You can safely land against the pattern if you pull high enough and hang in brakes while everybody lands.

Or you can kill somebody if you do it without common sense!!!!:|

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And this is why, IMO, we as skydivers will not figure this out on our own. Everyone is selfish. The guy forcing everyone downwind and you deciding which way you want to land regardless of the direction set.

The guy who wants to land in front
The guy who has 10,000 jumps and doesn't need rules
The guy who sees every canopy and knew nobody was there
The list goes on....

Nobody hits the canopy they see....but hey, it worked this time right?
Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen
God is Good
Beer is Great
Swoopers are crazy.

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if you let these twits force you to land downwind



I didn't realize they forced you to get on the plane and make the jump. I'd be pissed too if someone did that to me.

Ian



So Ian we are supposed to use our psychic ability and predict that someone is going to set a downwind landing pattern in a 15mph wind before we get onto the plane?? :S:S

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if you let these twits force you to land downwind



I didn't realize they forced you to get on the plane and make the jump. I'd be pissed too if someone did that to me.

Ian



So Ian we are supposed to use our psychic ability and predict that someone is going to set a downwind landing pattern in a 15mph wind before we get onto the plane?? :S:S



no, but if it happens regularly, maybe the DZO should look into it!?
“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

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So Ian we are supposed to use our psychic ability and predict that someone is going to set a downwind landing pattern in a 15mph wind before we get onto the plane??



No, you're supposed to take some initiative. Generally there are 2 approaches to setting landing direction

1) First man down (which I hate for a variety of reasons).
2) Set the direction prior to take off (more and more DZ's are following this now).

In the case of #1 I would ask the likely FMD people which direction they are planning on landing. If you don't like the answer then take it up with them, or get off the load, or land in the same direction as them. Realize though, that by your getting on the plane (if you're not the FMD) - you are ACCEPTING to follow the rules and land in the same direction as set.

In the case of #2, you will know if you even want to get on the plane or not. However, like the first option, by getting on the plane you are once again ACCEPTING to follow the rules and land in the same direction as set.

Landing opposing traffic is simply not an acceptable option. Unless you're the only one in the sky, or have a very, very small set of canopies to count and already have, you can NEVER be sure you are the last one down. People pull high, have premature deployments, or some other situation which places them higher than you'd expect them to be. Like a HP Pilot 'swooping in the pattern', you can never be sure you've accounted for everyone (which is why swooping in the pattern is rightly frowned on).

Ian
Performance Designs Factory Team

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hey ian, what is your opinion in landing across the pattern if everybody is down already (say you hung in brakes from a deployment of 4k').

I hate following the downwinders at one particular DZ I go to so I typically pull higher when they are on the load so I can hang in brakes and land the way I think is safer.

It helps that their WL is almost twice mine so they get down fast compared to me! :D

by the way, I agree setting the pattern (with an agreement) in the plane before the load goes up is the best way.

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I'm not Ian, but let me give it a shot.

You never hit the person you see. Thats the problem. You can't be sure at a turbine DZ that you've accounted for everyone. its easier at a single cessna DZ.

People who habitually land downwind need to sit, or get out low on their own pass. DZO needs to correct this.

If a mistake is made, or winds shift mid load, then you have the responsibility to everyone that got on the plane to follow the pattern that was set. If you don't want to, or can't land your canopy downwind...stay grounded, or find a canopy you are comfortable landing downwind in.
Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen
God is Good
Beer is Great
Swoopers are crazy.

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Makes me appreciate all the more that where I typically jump there is a left-hand pattern to land on one side of the runway, and a left-hand pattern to land on the other side. If you want to land downwind use the appropriate side to land on.
Ian Purvis
http://www.loadupsoftware.com
LoadUp DZ Management App
admin@loadupsoftware.com

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