promise5 17 #1 October 9, 2013 I've read through some of the other threads about what gear a new jumper can start buying and I'm already looking. But, I've asked a few jumpers why I shouldn't just go ahead and buy my own student rig. The answer I get is its a waste if money. So, please explain like I'm 5 why. My thoughts are: 1) Isn't a student rig and a first rig very similar? 2) why wouldn't I want to start with a rig that I'm going to continue to use for a while. I just don't see myself only using a student rig for 25 jumps, I would think I would use it longer because I started with it and I've gotten use to it. Same reason for buying a jumpsuit right away. I'm so not questioning anyone's advice, I just tend to over think things. Also I'm not a big fan of using someone's else's stuff.No matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible. Believe me I tried. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bluhdow 31 #2 October 10, 2013 This has been discussed. A lot. I mean, like once a week. 1. Everyone here, and at the DZ will tell you not to buy gear yet. 2. You still want to, obviously. My advice? Just go buy gear and learn the hard way why it's a bad plan.Apex BASE #1816 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattjw916 2 #3 October 10, 2013 student rigs have features that you won't need when you aren't... wait for it... a student anymore spend money on coaching and jumps, not gear, when you're starting out Why would you want to buy a rig that's designed to fit ~500sq ft of fabric in it? QuoteAlso I'm not a big fan of using someone's else's stuff that sounds pretty arbitrary to me... get over itNSCR-2376, SCR-15080 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
promise5 17 #4 October 10, 2013 Sorry, I'll search through the threads a little better.No matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible. Believe me I tried. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trafficdiver 8 #5 October 10, 2013 If you're not a big fan of using other people's stuff then you're going to need to buy your own plane. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
promise5 17 #6 October 10, 2013 Ok got me on that No matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible. Believe me I tried. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 143 #7 October 10, 2013 Quite simply a first rig and a student rig are different. Think of it like a bike with built in training wheels that you can't remove cheaply. Student gear is normally oversized, the canopies are deliberately as large and docile as practical. It won't take long before those aspects inhibit rather than help your progress. Student rigs often have a secondary release so that AFF instructors can deploy from either side, good for a time but as you start to progress that feature becomes a liability and actually increases risk. Lastly many (all of our student rigs, but it is not universal) have an additional cutaway added to the reserve to minimise a certain risk, very good safety feature early on, but rapidly becomes unnecessary and undesirable. If you worry about student gear ask questions, check the reserve is in date, look at the state of it, most places I've jumped take pride in their assets and keep it in good nick.Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FlyingRhenquest 1 #8 October 10, 2013 They typically start you out on a much larger canopy than you should be flying, set up to be as docile, controllable and safe as possible. You'll want something a little faster and more maneuverable as the canopy you're going to put a couple hundred jumps on. Most people seem to downsize at least 50 square feet from the student canopies I see them starting out on. I downsized from a 300 to a 230 over the course of 50 or so jumps. That 300 opened like a bitch (to be fair a lot of that was probably my body position and weight at that time,) steered like a school bus and had no flare to speak of. I'd punch the toggles to my crotch and it'd be like "Meh." I didn't even stand up a landing until I downsized to a 260. If you don't try several different canopies and rigs while you're a student, how will you form an opinion of what you want for your own gear? I suggest waiting at least until you get your A and then start looking if you want to. For AFF you're going to need a jumpsuit with handles. Later on you may or may not want handles. I honestly didn't really want a jumpsuit at all, so after AFF I tried to get away without one. All the coaches I got saddled with made me wear a jumpsuit. I finally caved and bought my own so I wouldn't smell like AFF student anymore -- a piquant aroma of fear, sweat and urine that makes you start itching the moment you start wallowing in it. I often felt the urge to go home and take a shower between jumps while I was a student. They'll probably make you use their jumpsuits. Have fun with that. You might be able to get away with your own helmet if it's not a full face one. Check with your local DZ. Definitely get your own helmet if you can. If they'll recommend one that won't get the AFF instructors panties in a bunch, even better. They like to give you clear goggles so they can see your eyes. While the goggles they give you are mostly sanitary, I preferred my own from early on. You can get some clear skydiving goggles on amazon.com for cheap. See if you can find a bundle of 1 pair clear 2 tinted for $20 or $30. Even if the AFF instructors don't let you wear them, you can still use the clear ones for night jumps later on. No such reservations apply in the tunnel. So if you're planning to do tunnel time, get your jumpsuit, goggles and helmet early. Tunnel rental jumpsuits also made me itch and want to take a shower. They didn't smell quite as badly of AFF student though (Less urine and fear.) They will probably give you a big play-doh altimeter for AFF. You can see if you can score your own used. Digital ones are more expensive but the benefits are many. I highly recommend a digital one if you can afford it. They may not let you use it for AFF, but you can later. A lot of the decisions made for AFF students are for the benefit of the instructors, not the student. If you're going to ask me to be there to save your life if you fail to, you're gonna have to make some concessions for the greater good. And also bring beer.I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
promise5 17 #9 October 10, 2013 Thanks!!! That's what I was looking for. No matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible. Believe me I tried. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
promise5 17 #10 October 10, 2013 Ok now you have me freaked on the jumpsuit thingYou seriously felt that way?? How much does a student jumpsuit cost? Maybe I could get one new and then donate it to the DZ?? No matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible. Believe me I tried. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FlyingRhenquest 1 #11 October 10, 2013 promise5 Ok now you have me freaked on the jumpsuit thingYou seriously felt that way?? How much does a student jumpsuit cost? Maybe I could get one new and then donate it to the DZ?? Oh God yes! Friend of mine lost his wallet at the DZ one day. Assumed someone'd made off with it. A month later he took a jumpsuit down off the rack and found his wallet in it! It had obviously not been cleaned in the interim. But then, it probably had not been used in the interim either, so at least it was mostly just his own filth he was wallowing in. It never occurred to me to ask how much a student jumpsuit would cost. I'm a dude. We tend to have a much higher tolerance for squalor. Though occasionally my room mate gives me a run for my money when we engage in our little battle of wills to see who can tolerate the most hair growing from the walls in shower before one of us breaks down and scrubs it.I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boyfalldown 0 #12 October 10, 2013 Keep in mind the jumpsuit is half for you and half for your instructors. A tiny slow instructor may put you in a tight fast suit, and a big guy with an advanced fall rate may want you in something baggy and slow. If your really worried about jumpsuit cooties try to schedule your jumps early in the weekend before anyone else gets to stink em up. Most d.z.'s I've worked for washed all the jumpsuits at some point during the week before the weekend rush. I get the desire to own your own stuff, ask your instructors what things you can jump with, altimeter, goggles and possibly a helmet are a good start. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 143 #13 October 10, 2013 Sorry but I take issue with aspects of your post. Firstly if the dz where you jump is a filthy dump, take it up with the owner/manager. There is no excuse. The 'handles' are 'grippers' and they perform a function, long after AFF. The more ignorance I see on this subject the more I wish freeflying was reserved for C license and above. No way should an AFF student be buying a jumpsuit, there are considerations that you clearly aren't aware of, that every AFF instructor thinks about before kitting up a student. Quote A lot of the decisions made for AFF students are for the benefit of the instructors, not the student. I have a real problem with that statement. It may simply be poorly worded, but EVERY decision that an AFF instructor makes is intended to benefit the student.Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3mpire 0 #14 October 10, 2013 QuoteFor AFF you're going to need a jumpsuit with handles. Later on you may or may not want handles. I honestly didn't really want a jumpsuit at all, so after AFF I tried to get away without one. All the coaches I got saddled with made me wear a jumpsuit. If i'm on a belly jump with someone without a suit or a suit without grippers I tell them up front it's really just polite to give everyone else on your jump something to grab onto when trying to do whatever we're trying to do. I've turned down jumps if the guy I'm supposed to be docking on doesn't have a suit on. It's often a waste of my time. If you are not wearing a suit on a belly jump and I need to dock on something other than your hand, I just grab as much flesh as I can and hold on tight. arm hairs, skin, whatever. I'll stretch the fuck out of a t-shirt if I have to. Not comfortable for you but it works for me. Seriously. Dress for success. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FlyingRhenquest 1 #15 October 10, 2013 Not me man! I'm a lone gunman! I don't need some other skydiver getting a grip on me! They're just planning to dry hump me! This isn't my first wingsuit rodeo!I'm trying to teach myself how to set things on fire with my mind. Hey... is it hot in here? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
boyfalldown 0 #16 October 10, 2013 3mpire *** If you are not wearing a suit on a belly jump and I need to dock on something other than your hand, I just grab as much flesh as I can and hold on tight. arm hairs, skin, whatever. I'll stretch the fuck out of a t-shirt if I have to. Not comfortable for you but it works for me. Seriously. Dress for success. Well that's not very nice... Learn to fly your slot and you'll be able to take any grip! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3mpire 0 #17 October 10, 2013 Quote Well that's not very nice... Learn to fly your slot and you'll be able to take any grip! I fly my slot In my experience, suit-less guy docks with my burble. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 370 #18 October 10, 2013 promise5 I'm so not questioning anyone's advice, I just tend to over think things. Quote Yes you do. Also I'm not a big fan of using someone's else's stuff. Quote It's not "someone else's stuff". It's drop zone "stuff" purchased specifically to keep noobs safe. I'm usually one that encourages new jumpers to keep moving forward when they have issues, but in this case I'm not too sure. I'm thinking you might be a "that guy". Do yourself a favor. Unless the DZ you are training at has suspected safety issues, just follow their guidance and get through their program. After that you can buy all the student gear you want. Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
promise5 17 #19 October 10, 2013 Holy crap!! Soooo won't be "that guy"!!!! Sports to dangerous!!!No matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible. Believe me I tried. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 370 #20 October 10, 2013 promise5Holy crap!! Soooo won't be "that guy"!!!! Sports to dangerous!!! For some, yes. Only you can decide if it's too dangerous for you. Butch up or hit the porch.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
promise5 17 #21 October 10, 2013 Rather then "butch" up, I'll just woman up!!Not sitting in any porch. No matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible. Believe me I tried. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 370 #22 October 10, 2013 promise5 Rather then "butch" up, I'll just woman up!!Not sitting in any porch. Butching up isn't gender-specific, girlie. Glad to hear you don't plan to sit "in" a porch. Not even sure how one could do that. All jabs aside, I suggest you stop thinking with your noobness and just trust the folks who are trying to get you where you claim you want to go.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NvyZero 0 #23 October 10, 2013 When you are going through training they tend to downsize you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 143 #24 October 10, 2013 NvyZeroWhen you are going through training they tend to downsize you. I know it is largely semantics, but I think it is really important to remember that you 'graduate' from student canopies. The size and nature of the downsize from a student canopy is different to to a 'normal' downsize. It isn't uncommon to drop 50sq foot in a single step moving off student canopies, you would be insane to do that in other circumstances.Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
promise5 17 #25 October 10, 2013 Thanks for the answers and the patience. No matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible. Believe me I tried. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
