Let's all immigrate to a better life

[SkyDekker 1,123]

1 minute ago, gowlerk said:

We bribed them to join. I'm not really sure why, but there it is.

Cause they are awesome people and every day in Newfoundland is a great fucking day. I love Newfoundland.

[gowlerk 1,914]

18 minutes ago, SkyDekker said:

Cause they are awesome people and every day in Newfoundland is a great fucking day. I love Newfoundland.

Well, I can't say I know a lot of Newfies. But of the ones I have met I've never met one I didn't like.

Edited March 6 by gowlerk

[JoeWeber 2,299]

47 minutes ago, ryoder said:

There is an episode of Adam Conover's old series "Adam Ruins Everything" titled "Adam Ruins Immigration".

In it, he made an interesting point: Before border enforcement became a big deal, and sneaking across the border was easier, migrant farm workers made frequent border crossings to work on US farms. Then when the work was done, they went back home. This had a number of advantages:

1. US farms got low cost temporary workers when they needed them, e.g. at harvest time.

2. Those same farms were able to sell at lower prices and still make a profit, so US consumers got lower grocery prices.

3. Poor Mexican citizens made made more money than they could make at home.

4. The Mexican economy got an infusion of cash when the migrant workers returned.

So then the US ramped Rightoup border enforcement, and it became too risky for the migrant workers to cross the border, so their best option was to either stay in the US, or not come at all.

 

Righto, but that was when it was only Mexicans. I remember when the Darien Gap was considered too treacherous unless you were a Navy Seal. Now the line through looks like an E Ticket ride at Disneyland.

Now, I'll grant you that grimmie is a high value individual but were we told in advance 8 years ago that we were trading him for a half million central americans a year I think there might have been objections.

 

Edited March 6 by JoeWeber

[gowlerk 1,914]

4 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Righto, but that was when it was only Mexicans. I remember when the Darien Gap was considered too treacherous unless you were a Navy Seal. Now the line through looks like an E Ticket ride at Disneyland.

Now, I'll grant you that grimmie is a high value individual but were we told in advance 8 years ago that we were trading him for a half million central americans a year I think there might have been objections.

 

Reminds me a little of this....https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/article/ellis-island-millions-immigrants-united-states-america

Also a difficult journey.

[JoeWeber 2,299]

2 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Reminds me a little of this....https://www.nationalgeographic.com/history/article/ellis-island-millions-immigrants-united-states-america

Also a difficult journey.

Economics and politics to the death were simpler then. Oh, and there wasn't the pox of social media infecting the nation.

[ryoder 1,384]

27 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Righto, but that was when it was only Mexicans. I remember when the Darien Gap was considered too treacherous unless you were a Navy Seal. Now the line through looks like an E Ticket ride at Disneyland.

Youtuber "Itchy Boots" hired a boat to take her (and her motorcycle) around the Darien Gap, when she rode Ushuaia to Prudoe Bay a couple years ago. Of course, being an attractive 30-something Dutch blonde, that was probably a prudent decision.

[JoeWeber 2,299]

1 minute ago, ryoder said:

Youtuber "Itchy Boots" hired a boat to take her (and her motorcycle) around the Darien Gap, when she rode Ushuaia to Prudoe Bay a couple years ago. Of course, being an attractive 30-something Dutch blonde, that was probably a prudent decision.

The Darien Gap crossing is serious. But it's not serious enough to stop anyone not a wealthy, self aggrandizing youtuber in search of clicks, apparently. I have no problem with Mexicans or Canadian Truckers crossing the border for better opportunities. But, when several countries conspire to accelerate the pipeline of immigrants through theirs and other countries to the US when those immigrants were already safe from persecution and there had better, if not world optimum, opportunities I call bullshit.

[gowlerk 1,914]

21 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

But, when several countries conspire to accelerate the pipeline of immigrants through theirs and other countries to the US when those immigrants were already safe from persecution

Those countries are small and poor themselves without the capacity to hold them. Mexico does have capacity and that is where most of them are being held back right now. Whether or not Mexico will continue to do that depends entirely on how much its government weighs reprisal and reward from whatever POTUS is in power at the moment.

[JoeWeber 2,299]

11 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Those countries are small and poor themselves without the capacity to hold them. Mexico does have capacity and that is where most of them are being held back right now. Whether or not Mexico will continue to do that depends entirely on how much its government weighs reprisal and reward from whatever POTUS is in power at the moment.

Costa Rica is not poor. Panama is not poor. 

https://www.wlrn.org/americas/2023-10-11/latin-america-panama-costa-rica-darien-gap

[gowlerk 1,914]

3 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Costa Rica is not poor. Panama is not poor. 

https://www.wlrn.org/americas/2023-10-11/latin-america-panama-costa-rica-darien-gap

Maybe so relatively, but they are small with a population of less than 10 million between them. They are not going to be the savior of the USA.

[wmw999 2,122]

We were just down in Costa Rica, and wondering what exactly they did to avoid having so many of the emigrants from further south stop there. 

But the US is where the money is. Way more than the rest of Central America combined. Why would they stop there if they want to also be able to help their families back home?

We met two young men whose families immigrated to Costa Rica about 20 years ago because of threats; they didn't have as much family back home to support, and they're now happy Costa Ricans. But there just isn't as much money there, and since capitalism has monetized everything, why on earth would they stop short?

Wendy P.

[JoeWeber 2,299]

7 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

We were just down in Costa Rica, and wondering what exactly they did to avoid having so many of the emigrants from further south stop there. 

But the US is where the money is. Way more than the rest of Central America combined. Why would they stop there if they want to also be able to help their families back home?

We met two young men whose families immigrated to Costa Rica about 20 years ago because of threats; they didn't have as much family back home to support, and they're now happy Costa Ricans. But there just isn't as much money there, and since capitalism has monetized everything, why on earth would they stop short?

Wendy P.

Because we will sanction them if they don’t and support them if they do.

Edited March 7 by JoeWeber

[JoeWeber 2,299]

35 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Maybe so relatively, but they are small with a population of less than 10 million between them. They are not going to be the savior of the USA.

That’s my point, to your analysis every one who wants the best should go to America and that’s that.

[JoeWeber 2,299]

3 hours ago, kallend said:

I guess the US wanted me here because I came at the explicit invitation of the US Department of Energy.  I arrived, at USDoE expense, on a Boeing 747 (they wouldn't pay for Concorde).

Excellent point. We should have a national program to import as many double first quantum mechanics professors as possible, humorless or not, at any expense. 

[gowlerk 1,914]

16 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

That’s my point, to your analysis every one who wants the best should go to America and that’s that.

America is the promised land. The shining beacon on the hill. Actually western Europe has even more problems with unwanted immigration from the places known as shitholes. The G7 countries are places that are so freaking rich that truck driving labourer types can afford to buy lift tickets from rich yacht owning DZOs and go skydiving. Ask Grimmie how many Costa Ricans can afford skydiving on the wages they can make washing your boat.

[JoeWeber 2,299]

48 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Ask Grimmie how many Costa Ricans can afford skydiving on the wages they can make washing your boat.

They also can't afford the rum or wine I drink. Don't be so pedestrian, I paid the illegal Colombian guy who washed and waxed my boat last week above market rate by a margin. You know, since a single gas station job I held for a week when I was sixteen, and after I was fired a 7-11 type job for a few weeks, I have never held a job for wages.So that mentality has never been with me, I just get after it. Maybe you can relate but I relate more to the guy who wants to open a taco truck somewhere.

Edited March 7 by JoeWeber
I forgot

[gowlerk 1,914]

31 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Don't be so pedestrian, I paid the illegal Colombian guy who washed and waxed my boat last week above market rate by a margin.

I'm sure you did. But you also did not sail north to the homeland and get it done there at union rates. I'm not criticizing you though. I'm just pointing out what you already know. My first job was also pumping gas, it lasted a month. I was 15. But unlike you I am still workin' for the man. Well, sort of. I'm semi-retired. Which is why I sometimes have more time to engage here and sometimes not.

[JoeWeber 2,299]

8 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

But you also did not sail north to the homeland and get it done there at union rates. I'm not criticizing you though.

Sort of you are. No matter, you've chosen your journey because it suits you as did I. You like the idea of a paycheck and what that offers, I like the idea of what a paycheck does not offer. Your path was easy, mine was fraught with risk. We each have our results.

[gowlerk 1,914]

9 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

We each have our results.

Yes, and I'm happy for the way it turned out for both of us. I actually was self employed for 9 years and reasonably successful. But I also found it annoyingly stressful to deal with being pulled in too many directions by people with needs opposed to each other. I'm sure you know what I mean.

[JoeWeber 2,299]

1 hour ago, gowlerk said:

Yes, and I'm happy for the way it turned out for both of us. I actually was self employed for 9 years and reasonably successful. But I also found it annoyingly stressful to deal with being pulled in too many directions by people with needs opposed to each other. I'm sure you know what I mean.

Yes, indeed. I'm happy with my outcome, too. I feel like it was my right way to go and I'm pretty sure I'd have been bored stiff at grade school soccer games. No going back, so there's that.

[kallend 1,623]

13 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

Excellent point. We should have a national program to import as many double first quantum mechanics professors as possible, humorless or not, at any expense. 

Hey - like a typical immigrant I did the jobs most Americans wouldn't do. 

Like teaching quantum mechanics.

[normiss 622]

1 hour ago, kallend said:

Hey - like a typical immigrant I did the jobs most Americans wouldn't do. 

Like teaching quantum mechanics.

This nation owes a HUGE thanks to the immigrants that brought a metric shit ton of technology, skills, and knowledge to the US.

[gowlerk 1,914]

1 hour ago, kallend said:

Hey - like a typical immigrant I did the jobs most Americans wouldn't do. 

Like teaching quantum mechanics.

Well....its true that immigration is often a wave-like process.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

19 hours ago, gowlerk said:

Well....its true that immigration is often a wave-like process.

Well, it's described as 'coming in waves', but I think the individual immigrants would be more characteristic of particles.