Teflon Powder

[MMakoto 0]

Hey,
Just wondering, if someone have already Thought about using Teflon powder to help lubricate the cutaway cable (a bit of fine powder with silicone oil), maybe apply a little over the control lines to reduce friction (just the powder, or maybe a beeswax/Teflon blend) or maybe using the powder in the suspension lines to prevent tension knots(just the powder).
As a mechanic engineer I know a Little about materials and lubricants, and as far my knowledge goes it cold be a good idea to use fine Powder Teflon (not the liquid solvent based ones).
None of my rigger found a problem with that material, but none of them tried it.
Not sure how long the powder alone wold hold in the suspension lines though (it can hold for several jumps by adsorption if the powder is fine enough).

[GLIDEANGLE 1]

Beeswax on the lines.... as I recollect, this has been tried before and the result was the capture of lots of dirt on the lines which INCREASED all the bad things that you are trying to decrease.

The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

[mcordell 2]

MMakoto

Hey,
Just wondering, if someone have already Thought about using Teflon powder to help lubricate the cutaway cable (a bit of fine powder with silicone oil), maybe apply a little over the control lines to reduce friction (just the powder, or maybe a beeswax/Teflon blend) or maybe using the powder in the suspension lines to prevent tension knots(just the powder).
As a mechanic engineer I know a Little about materials and lubricants, and as far my knowledge goes it cold be a good idea to use fine Powder Teflon (not the liquid solvent based ones).
None of my rigger found a problem with that material, but none of them tried it.
Not sure how long the powder alone wold hold in the suspension lines though (it can hold for several jumps by adsorption if the powder is fine enough).

I feel like this would be an attempt to fix something I don't have problems with. I have never had tension knots in my lines on deployment. I'm also pretty sure I want some friction in my cutaway pull. It's pretty easy to pull and I have had to do so. I wouldn't want to make it any easier.

www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging

[councilman24 36]

The interior of housings are not dry. When produced they are dripping in oil. There is always an oil residue left behind. Teflon powder would combine with the oil and make a slurry/paste. This may not only be not as effective as either oil or powder alone but may be worse.

80 years of housings, 40 years of teflon powder, nothing new here.

Bees wax attracts sand and dirt. It was used on dacron lines to try to lessen tension knots. It is not a good idea even though it's probably still in Poynter's manual. Wax sold in paragear, if it's still there, is for waxing thread, not lines.

If you want to be a test jumper fine. But don't expect to sell a canopy with lines contaminated.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[gowlerk 1,918]

Quote

I'm also pretty sure I want some friction in my cutaway pull.

It is standard procedure to clean and lubricate the yellow Lolon cutaway cable. If you were to read the manual you will find that you should do it monthly. Although the reality is that it probably only gets done by your rigger at R&I time.

You may have found your cutaway easy, as have I, but several people have died due to hard cutaways. It is important that cutaways be as easy as possible. Generally food grade silicon spray is used for this cleaning and lubricating, although some people use a light oil.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[BIGUN 1,065]

http://www.google.com/patents/EP1718790A2

Nobody has time to listen; because they're desperately chasing the need of being heard.

[MMakoto 0]

Well yes, beeswax in the suspension lines will be for sure a bad idea. The only spot that it may be useful is in the part of the control lines close to the toggles to reduce fraying or burning , maybe some Teflon powder would help to neutralize the tackiness of the beeswax . I rather not test new strange combinations though, but hey if someone tested and found it useful why not?

Quote

The interior of housings are not dry. When produced they are dripping in oil. There is always an oil residue left behind. Teflon powder would combine with the oil and make a slurry/paste. This may not only be not as effective as either oil or powder alone but may be worse.

Good point, but the amount of powder is important, the idea is not to spray Teflon powder like hell. In some manufacturers manuals, they do recommend dry lubricant to clean the cutaway cables, but they are probably talking about the liquid emulsion types. Anyway the idea is to wipe all the residual powder after using it, leaving only a invisible micro coat that reduces the friction. (the powder needs to be very fine to allow such effect)

[RedundantRigger 0]

Do people clean the housings?

[mcordell 2]

mcordell

***Hey,
Just wondering, if someone have already Thought about using Teflon powder to help lubricate the cutaway cable (a bit of fine powder with silicone oil), maybe apply a little over the control lines to reduce friction (just the powder, or maybe a beeswax/Teflon blend) or maybe using the powder in the suspension lines to prevent tension knots(just the powder).
As a mechanic engineer I know a Little about materials and lubricants, and as far my knowledge goes it cold be a good idea to use fine Powder Teflon (not the liquid solvent based ones).
None of my rigger found a problem with that material, but none of them tried it.
Not sure how long the powder alone wold hold in the suspension lines though (it can hold for several jumps by adsorption if the powder is fine enough).

I feel like this would be an attempt to fix something I don't have problems with. I have never had tension knots in my lines on deployment. I'm also pretty sure I want some friction in my cutaway pull. It's pretty easy to pull and I have had to do so. I wouldn't want to make it any easier.

I actually do maintain my cutaway system but I was saying I wouldn't want to add some other super slick lubricant to a functional system. Didn't we have more cutaway problems before rigid channels due to line twists binding the system?

www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging

[mjosparky 3]

BIGUN

http://www.google.com/patents/EP1718790A2

This guy has a patent on everything but the wheel.

Sparky

https://www.google.com/search?tbo=p&tbm=pts&hl=en&q=inassignee:%22Atair+Aerospace+Inc%22

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[councilman24 36]

He patents common sense, and prior art, and will sue you over it.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[councilman24 36]

The housings are cleaned before shipment. (Had a college roommate who worked in a factory making the stuff every weekend.) The residual oil is probably a good thing for flexibility and rust protection. But it also coat the cables and attracts dirt. THAT'S why you are supposed to clean and lube your cables every month. I think a completely dry system wouldn't be good. Anybody try it with degreaser?

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[RedundantRigger 0]

I've seen it done with some kind of raffined parafin/gasolene stuff, a rag and thin wire. Housings can harbor a decent amount of crap as time goes by, (making the rag completely black at least).
But few people seem to do this procedure, even though it's mentioned in Poynter and bulletins from various manufacturers. (They seem to be hard to find for some reason)

It might not be very important, as you say, if the cables are lubricated periodically. But a thought that struck me is that the reserve cable is never cleaned or lubricated. And that if muck is allowed to build up in the reserve housing, it might contribute to a hard pull.
I'm guessing its not a problem seeing as I've never heard of any complications or whatever,but maybe you guys have something clever to say about it?

[councilman24 36]

Never heard of or seen an issue of twisted stainless cable on metal housing having an issue. Hard against hard and limited points of contact.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[councilman24 36]

Never heard of or seen an issue of twisted stainless cable on metal housing having an issue. Hard against hard and limited points of contact.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[mjosparky 3]

Quote

But a thought that struck me is that the reserve cable is never cleaned or lubricated.

Are you sure about that.
Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[uberchris 0]

i lube my cables once a month. i use food grade silicone spray, purchased from walmart for a few bucks. works like a charm. this is based on the recommendation from several of my rigger friends

gravity brings me down.........

[RedundantRigger 0]

So you clean/lubricate the reserve ripcord and clean out the housings? How do you clean the housings?

[Bertt 0]

I don't clean the housings, but I bet a BoreSnake would work. As for Teflon powder, the Lolon cable coating is slick, like Teflon, so Teflon powder would be redundant.

You don't have to outrun the bear.

[JohnSherman 1]

Quote

Just wondering, if someone have already Thought about using Teflon powder to help lubricate the cutaway cable (a bit of fine powder with silicone oil),

Why not just buy a rig with pure Teflon (FEPT) Coating instrad of Nylon which is hydroscopic. No lubrication or maintaince req'd.
They are out there and the cables are colored red or orange. Wonder which rig that is? Probabally the one which has not changed in 20 years, the one which doesn't inovate.The one which does't need a MARD.

[billvon 2,417]

>They are out there and the cables are colored red or orange. Wonder which rig that
>is? Probabally the one which has not changed in 20 years,

Not to quibble, but I bought a Racer 21 years ago and it had yellow cables.

[Boogers 0]

MMakoto

Teflon powder... maybe apply a little over the control lines to reduce friction... or maybe using the powder in the suspension lines to prevent tension knots...

What about the friction that is necessary in your rubber bands to hold your line stow bights? There are places where friction is needed, and a good thing. If your lines are too slick, you could get line dump.

What about the effect it has on the slider descending down the lines? If the slider shoots down too fast, you're looking at hard openings.

Quote

As a mechanic engineer I know a Little about materials and lubricants, and as far my knowledge goes it cold be a good idea...

That doesn't mean shit when it comes to applying the knowledge to skydiving gear of which you seem to know little about. And many people have died over the decades experimenting with their equipment without proper knowledge. Seemingly simple changes can have drastic consequences. A lot of systems are carefully balanced with each other, and if you upset that balance bad things can happen.

Good luck.

I suggest spending a few years becoming an expert skydiver. Then spend a few more years becoming an expert rigger. THEN you'll be ready to experiment with gear.

[MMakoto 0]

Just asking if someone had tried it, I'm not trying to be a test jumper, just trying to know a little more about it.
So lets discuss about what you said:

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What about the friction that is necessary in your rubber bands to hold your line stow bights?

If the friction is too low on the rubber bands, just tight the rubber bands.

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What about the effect it has on the slider descending down the lines? If the slider shoots down too fast, you're looking at hard openings.

The descending speed of the slider is mainly affected by the air drag not the friction of the lines, spectra are more slick, HMA more rough, no difference about openings. I could say the same about the thickens of the lines, thicker lines mean much more friction between the slider grommet and the lines. We now have more thin microlines (which reduces the friction), and no change to the slider speed.

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That doesn't mean shit when it comes to applying the knowledge to skydiving gear of which you seem to know little about

Look before say that someone is stupid you have to be certain of what you are saying, don't be a fool.

Quote

I suggest spending a few years becoming an expert skydiver. Then spend a few more years becoming an expert rigger

when you say things like that is like saying that everyone that doesn't got 10 thousands jumps are not allowed to make suggestions of improvement, and every expert skydiver or rigger know everything that has to know about parachute systems and dynamics. You know you don't need to be a airplane pilot to improve something in an airplane.
I don't know what is going to happen about the Teflon, that's why I'm asking here if someone tried it before.
Maybe no one tough to use dry lubricants, that can be a good idea
If someone used it and had a bad result so tell us so we can avoid mistakes
Just watch your ego boy, Jesus...

[mcordell 2]

MMakoto

Quote

What about the effect it has on the slider descending down the lines? If the slider shoots down too fast, you're looking at hard openings.

The descending speed of the slider is mainly affected by the air drag not the friction of the lines, spectra are more slick, HMA more rough, no difference about openings. I could say the same about the thickens of the lines, thicker lines mean much more friction between the slider grommet and the lines. We now have more thin microlines (which reduces the friction), and no change to the slider speed.

I would say you are very wrong about that. Smaller, slicker lines have led to the slider decending faster which contributed to harder openings. Several people went to larger sliders or modified sliders for this reason.

Grammatically your posts are somewhat difficult to read and the result is it is hard to take your engineering thoughts seriously. That's not an attack, just a suggestion on how to maybe garner more sincere replies.

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[MMakoto 0]

Okay I accept that, slicker suspension lines = bad Idea.
I'm a Portuguese speaker, that explains my grammar.