winsor 186 #26 June 10, 2022 I've seen it in practice, and the solution is both simple and fundamental. Universal conscription, a la 'Starship Troopers,' as a basis for citizenship. Six months of training, to include bullet dispenser safety and handling, and one year of active duty for full citizen rights. This can include the Park Service and Coast Guard as well as the Marines and other Combat Arms branches. As in some countries, one is then recallable as part of the 'militia' until they are old and decrepit, say 45 years. If someone is so much of a conscientious objector that they don't want to personally participate in government? Fine, but they don't get full rights. A citizen is armed, a subject is not. If you don't think you are fit to own a firearm, you're right. If you think you are fit to own a firearm, you may or may not be. Only the Government should have arms. In a Democracy, the Government is the Citizens. BSBD, Winsor Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,122 #27 June 10, 2022 Where is it a requirement for voting, besides in Starship Troopers? Most of the countries I’ve heard of that have mandatory service for women as well as men have either rampant religious exceptions or allowing mothers with children to be excused — but by your standard, that would mean they don’t get actual citizenship rights. And if you’re holding Israel up as an example of non-violence owing to the “universal” nature of its conscription, consider that it’s religiously based, full of holes, and one that specifically limits the lives of some of its citizens based on conditions of birth. Which conditions of birth would you use? Wendy P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #28 June 11, 2022 19 hours ago, winsor said: I've seen it in practice, and the solution is both simple and fundamental. Universal conscription, a la 'Starship Troopers,' as a basis for citizenship. Six months of training, to include bullet dispenser safety and handling, and one year of active duty for full citizen rights. This can include the Park Service and Coast Guard as well as the Marines and other Combat Arms branches. As in some countries, one is then recallable as part of the 'militia' until they are old and decrepit, say 45 years. If someone is so much of a conscientious objector that they don't want to personally participate in government? Fine, but they don't get full rights. A citizen is armed, a subject is not. If you don't think you are fit to own a firearm, you're right. If you think you are fit to own a firearm, you may or may not be. Only the Government should have arms. In a Democracy, the Government is the Citizens. BSBD, Winsor May I also suggest that you include a few West German exceptions. My landlord was exempt from military service because her was a long-serving member of his village's volunteer fire department. I often saw the volunteer fire department training teenagers in basic fire-fighting techniques. West Germany also excluded most medics: nurses, x-ray technicians, physio-therapists, surgeons, EMTs, etc. from military service. After their horrendous civilian casualties during carpet-bombing raids, they understood the value of pre-trained civil defense staffs. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #29 June 11, 2022 On 6/10/2022 at 5:16 AM, winsor said: I've seen it in practice, and the solution is both simple and fundamental. Universal conscription, a la 'Starship Troopers,' as a basis for citizenship. I think the model in Neville Shute's "In the Wet" is far better. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mtgale00 1 #30 June 11, 2022 On 6/10/2022 at 3:16 AM, winsor said: ... In a Democracy, the Government is the Citizens. BSBD, Winsor One small problem, last time I checked the United States is a republic, not a democracy. I think it's safe to say we practice democracy under the umbrella of a republic but I think your statement may imply a pure democracy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 186 #31 June 14, 2022 Never let a good crisis go to waste. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/school-shooting-statistics-can-be-misleading/ar-AAYpAjo?cvid=dcd4c9e9124b4acb8456c9a93ba53b20 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,122 #32 June 14, 2022 1 hour ago, winsor said: Never let a good crisis go to waste. https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/school-shooting-statistics-can-be-misleading/ar-AAYpAjo?cvid=dcd4c9e9124b4acb8456c9a93ba53b20 Ahh the "it isn't so bad cause they use a broad definition" argument. "While many people correlate the term with an active shooter incident, school shootings are defined by the Center for Homeland Defense and Security as "when a gun is brandished, is fired, or a bullet hits school property for any reason, regardless of the number of victims (including zero), time, day of the week, or reason." This includes suicides or incidents unrelated to schoolchildren, teachers, or school staff. " I wouldn't want my children to be in that environment, under that definition. You? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 186 #33 June 14, 2022 1 hour ago, SkyDekker said: Ahh the "it isn't so bad cause they use a broad definition" argument. "While many people correlate the term with an active shooter incident, school shootings are defined by the Center for Homeland Defense and Security as "when a gun is brandished, is fired, or a bullet hits school property for any reason, regardless of the number of victims (including zero), time, day of the week, or reason." This includes suicides or incidents unrelated to schoolchildren, teachers, or school staff. " I wouldn't want my children to be in that environment, under that definition. You? Level 3a armor makes for a hefty backpack, but it improves the odds somewhat. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,122 #34 June 14, 2022 23 minutes ago, winsor said: Level 3a armor makes for a hefty backpack, but it improves the odds somewhat. Nothing says freedom quite like backpain from armour plated backpacks! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sfzombie13 307 #35 June 15, 2022 18 hours ago, winsor said: Level 3a armor makes for a hefty backpack, but it improves the odds somewhat. that's what you add to this discussion? improving the odds somewhat? of course it wasn't much of a discussion i guess, not sure what i was thinking when i posted this, but for a brief time i actually thought i may be able to get a real discussion going about some solutions. then i realized the nature of this forum and what happens here that i had forgotten. once again i am actually doing something about it rather than argue semantics. in a week or two i should be conducting my first class in the program i came up with to help the problem by working with troubled youths in a juvenile detention center. i've even been collaborating with a couple of drs of psychology. but you carry right along with improving the odds and arguing. i'd rather try to stop school shootings entirely. 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,048 #36 June 15, 2022 7 hours ago, sfzombie13 said: that's what you add to this discussion? improving the odds somewhat? of course it wasn't much of a discussion i guess, not sure what i was thinking when i posted this, but for a brief time i actually thought i may be able to get a real discussion going about some solutions. then i realized the nature of this forum and what happens here that i had forgotten. once again i am actually doing something about it rather than argue semantics. in a week or two i should be conducting my first class in the program i came up with to help the problem by working with troubled youths in a juvenile detention center. i've even been collaborating with a couple of drs of psychology. but you carry right along with improving the odds and arguing. i'd rather try to stop school shootings entirely. Hi 13, I applaud your efforts. Jerry Baumchen 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites