Electric cars banned from parking garages

[brenthutch 383]

“Fire hazard: German town bans e-cars from parking garage

The fire risks posed by electric cars are well known, so much so that the Bavarian town of Kulmbach has just banned electric and hybrid vehicles from parking inside parking garages because their batteries are so difficult to extinguish when fire starts.

According to German online weekly FOCUS here, “This was decided by the city in consultation with the fire brigade for the underground car park under Eku-Platz, as first reported by the portal InFranken.de.”

Battery fires “dramatic”, too difficult to extinguish

In the event of an electric or hybrid vehicle battery fire, extinguishing it would take too long and the heat generated could lead to extensive structural damage to the parking garage.

FOCUS reports: “A steel floor can withstand heat for a certain time, but if too much heat is applied, the concrete will burst and the iron will melt. Then there would be a danger of collapse.“

[JoeWeber 2,299]

2 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

“A steel floor can withstand heat for a certain time, but if too much heat is applied, the concrete will burst and the iron will melt. Then there would be a danger of collapse.“

Really? Steel will melt? Well, I'll be tickled with a posey! I've heard that rocks will melt too, and someone has proof, but who knows? Thank the currently popular deity for the Germans, no Telsanobyls will happening in Kulmbach now!

[wmw999 2,121]

And, in the headline from the article, as passed through the stomach of Google Translate:

Quote

When electric and hybrid cars burn, they are difficult to extinguish. In Kulmbach and Leonberg, the motto for Stromer is: We have to stay outside. Experts recommend special extinguishing systems for underground garages. The ADAC does not consider the problem serious.

So it's seen as a stopgap measure, and not considered to be a big problem. And the fire that precipitated the ban was in a gasoline car. They just were able to extinguish it, and didn't think they'd be able to extinguish it in an electric vehicle with the equipment they have. It's an underground garage.

Wow -- spin! Context!

Wendy P.

[olofscience 421]

All Ford cars to be sold in Europe to be electric by 2030.

Poor brent. We'll probably hit 50% electric sales much sooner than expected.

What puzzles me is, why has he hung so much emotion, so much of his ego on fossil fuels? Business decisions and engineering decisions don't need to involve emotions at all, and that's what's happening here.

Edited February 17, 2021 by olofscience

[brenthutch 383]

14 minutes ago, olofscience said:

All Ford cars to be sold in Europe to be electric by 2030.

Poor brent. We'll probably hit 50% electric sales much sooner than expected.

What puzzles me is, why has he hung so much emotion, so much of his ego on fossil fuels? Business decisions and engineering decisions don't need to involve emotions at all, and that's what's happening here.

The emotion and ego belongs to the Tesla “fan boys” and if “sooner than expected” is long after we are dead, you might have a point.

With less than three percent of global car sales, they have a way to go.

Edited February 17, 2021 by brenthutch

[olofscience 421]

7 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

The emotion and ego belongs to the Tesla “fan boys” and if “sooner than expected” is long after we are dead, you might have a point.

Hahaha, you're funny. You stroke your ego here multiple times, so citation needed on your allegation.

7 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

if “sooner than expected” is long after we are dead, you might have a point.

Speak for yourself, old man. But then the article said 2024 for elimination of all Ford's gasoline cars, so unless you were planning to die 5 years ago, I'll file this with your "Tesla will be bankrupt in 5 years" claim (2 years left on that prediction, by the way).

Edited February 17, 2021 by olofscience

[JoeWeber 2,299]

10 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Tesla “fan boys”

You see what you are doing here, right? 

[olofscience 421]

12 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

With less than three percent of global car sales, they have a way to go.

Wow, that changes everything! Small numbers never turn into big numbers, right?

[kallend 1,623]

I see that the latest McClaren Artura supercar is a hybrid.

[brenthutch 383]

2 minutes ago, olofscience said:

Hahaha, you're funny. You stroke your ego here multiple times, so citation needed on your allegation.

Speak for yourself, old man. But then the article said 2024 for elimination of all Ford's gasoline cars, so unless you were planning to die 5 years ago, I'll file this with your "Tesla will be bankrupt in 5 years" claim (2 years left on that prediction, by the way).

It says electric or hybrid, my GLS450 is a hybrid. (Yes I know the article said plug-in) BTW Western Europe accounts for just over 10% of global car sales, so a 100% electric Europe won’t have much of an impact.  Not to mention the typical lifespan of an internal combustion engine car is more than ten years.  So barring a government cram-down, most of the cars in the world will still be using gasoline for the foreseeable future.

[wmw999 2,121]

Brent, you have a wonderful capability to spin up a lot of shit with a mischaracterized post in the first place. I'm sure you see yourself like Rush seemed to, as dodging and spinning as the attacks come, countering each one.

Not realizing you're just playing dodgeball, standing in place, while the world continues to move on.

Wendy P.

[olofscience 421]

1 minute ago, brenthutch said:

So barring a government cram-down

Well given the noxious fumes, I'd expect most dense cities to implement bans of some sort to relegate old cars to the countryside. My city has actually started banning diesels in the central area (and encouraged me to get rid of my diesel) this year.

And "foreseeable future" - I know you're old and don't have much more to look forward to, but I'm at least a few decades younger than you so that might explain the difference in perspective.

When cars replaced horses, did horses go extinct? Or become endangered? Internal combustion engines will stick around, but will continue to shrink and will eventually become a niche.

[brenthutch 383]

9 minutes ago, kallend said:

I see that the latest McClaren Artura supercar is a hybrid.

The C-8 Corvette is purported to have two hybrids in development. One with a 6.2L 495hp V8 and another with a 5.5L flat plane twin turbo 700+hp, to go with a 150hp electric motor 

[kallend 1,623]

36 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

The emotion and ego belongs to the Tesla “fan boys” and if “sooner than expected” is long after we are dead, you might have a point.

With less than three percent of global car sales, they have a way to go.

People got very attached to their horses too.

Do you still have stock in buggy-whip companies?

[BIGUN 1,053]

It's a great time to be alive - https://www.gmc.com/electric-truck/hummer-ev. And, I still want a Harley Davidson Road Glide EV that get's 500 miles on a charge.  

[BIGUN 1,053]

7 minutes ago, kallend said:

Do you still have stock in buggy-whip companies?

I was never convicted and they dropped all the charges. 

[ryoder 1,384]

16 minutes ago, olofscience said:

When cars replaced horses, did horses go extinct? Or become endangered? Internal combustion engines will stick around, but will continue to shrink and will eventually become a niche.

If we were all living in caves, and someone invented the log cabin, he would be bleating:

"But those could get blown down by the wind!"

"They could catch fire!"

"They could be infested by termites!"

"They could be washed away by floods!"

"The roofs could be damaged by hail!"

[brenthutch 383]

10 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

Brent, you have a wonderful capability to spin up a lot of shit with a mischaracterized post in the first place. I'm sure you see yourself like Rush seemed to, as dodging and spinning as the attacks come, countering each one.

Not realizing you're just playing dodgeball, standing in place, while the world continues to move on.

Wendy P.

I don’t know if you remember, but we started having these conversations about 30 years ago.  Since then trillions of dollars have been spent on renewables and EVs.  What do we have to show for it?  We still get about the same percentage of energy from fossil fuels as we did a century ago, electric cars are still a subsidized, niche product for the upper middle class and CO2 levels have continued to rise unabated.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwjrqYHol_HuAhUqGFkFHX5uCcMQFjADegQIAhAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.forbes.com%2Fsites%2Frrapier%2F2020%2F06%2F20%2Fbp-review-new-highs-in-global-energy-consumption-and-carbon-emissions-in-2019%2F&usg=AOvVaw3IvlsFaCHtWsy3NTT9IPjs

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwiyoYP3l_HuAhW3FFkFHUKuBJIQFjABegQICxAC&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.iea.org%2Freports%2Fglobal-ev-outlook-2020&usg=AOvVaw2lH-SQeTRK9w5mBjHedNfv

https://www.co2.earth/daily-co2

Now I ask you, just who is grounded in reality and who is riding their unicorn through rainbow colored clouds of wishful thinking?

 

[wmw999 2,121]

So in other words, fossil fuels contribute the same percentage of a rapidly growing power consumption (think of all those countries with much more pervasive electric and other grids). Which means that renewables have grown at the same rate -- because otherwise those fossil fuels that drive your giant truck and power your heat would cost more because of other uses.

Good thing we have those renewables, huh

Wendy P.

[brenthutch 383]

1 minute ago, wmw999 said:

So in other words, fossil fuels contribute the same percentage of a rapidly growing power consumption (think of all those countries with much more pervasive electric and other grids). Which means that renewables have grown at the same rate -- because otherwise those fossil fuels that drive your giant truck and power your heat would cost more because of other uses.

Good thing we have those renewables, huh

Wendy P.

No renewables drive up energy costs, take a look at Germany.  They aggressively pursued renewables only to have the highest electricity prices in the EU.

 

[olofscience 421]

18 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

I don’t know if you remember, but we started having these conversations about 30 years ago.  Since then trillions of dollars have been spent on renewables and EVs.  What do we have to show for it?

The first Tesla Roadster was shipped in 2008. Lithium batteries are actually pretty new. You're stuck with a 30 year old discussion not considering the developments for the past 12 years? You need to move on a bit.

18 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Now I ask you, just who is grounded in reality and who is riding their unicorn through rainbow colored clouds of wishful thinking?

Wow, you're really attached to fossil fuels huh? The people grounded in reality are the car companies shifting to these, the engineers developing these, investors backing these, and not a random person on a random forum claiming he has "data".

Edited February 17, 2021 by olofscience

[BIGUN 1,053]

6 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Now I ask you, just who is grounded in reality and who is riding their unicorn through rainbow colored clouds of wishful thinking?

Brother, 30 years ago, we were jumping F-111 canopies and many still had round reserves. Innovation is about change. It takes time and money. Once innovation takes hold and the market begins to lean that way (as with any of the "ages" bronze, industrial, etc.), there is an acceleration right after the early adopters and the change becomes a constant.

I'm not sure why you are so deeply resistant to EV's or AGW, but your unwillingness to embrace the future of clean technologies is somewhat disconcerting. And, I'm going to point out that you're starting to post like Jakee and SkyDekker - you post the exception and not the rule and then want to argue the argument. 

Now, if you'll excuse me; I've got a unicorn to saddle and some clouds that need to be punched. 

[olofscience 421]

10 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

I'm not sure why you are so deeply resistant to EV's or AGW, but your unwillingness to embrace the future of clean technologies is somewhat disconcerting.

Brent on lockdown: "lockdowns don't stop covid, we should just get back to normal and give up trying to stop covid!"

Brent on AGW: (when he's saying that it's happening but not caused by humans) "we can't stop climate change, so we should just give up and keep using fossil fuels!"

It's really just him unwilling to change, because the world is changing and he can't stop it, so he's trying to convince us that we can't either. Never met someone who gives up so easily! His basic arguments boil down to the 2 words "give up".

I hate lockdowns, and I really wish climate change wasn't a problem, but nope, not going to listen to someone who's already given up.

Edited February 17, 2021 by olofscience

[JoeWeber 2,299]

16 minutes ago, olofscience said:

Brent on lockdown: "lockdowns don't stop covid, we should just get back to normal and give up trying to stop covid!"

Brent on AGW: (when he's saying that it's happening but not caused by humans) "we can't stop climate change, so we should just give up and keep using fossil fuels!"

It's really just him unwilling to change, because the world is changing and he can't stop it, so he's trying to convince us that we can't either. Never met someone who gives up so easily! His basic arguments boil down to the 2 words "give up".

I hate lockdowns, and I really wish climate change wasn't a problem, but nope, not going to listen to someone who's already given up.

 

23 minutes ago, BIGUN said:

Brother, 30 years ago, we were jumping F-111 canopies and many still had round reserves. Innovation is about change. It takes time and money. Once innovation takes hold and the market begins to lean that way (as with any of the "ages" bronze, industrial, etc.), there is an acceleration right after the early adopters and the change becomes a constant.

I'm not sure why you are so deeply resistant to EV's or AGW, but your unwillingness to embrace the future of clean technologies is somewhat disconcerting. And, I'm going to point out that you're starting to post like Jakee and SkyDekker - you post the exception and not the rule and then want to argue the argument. 

Now, if you'll excuse me; I've got a unicorn to saddle and some clouds that need to be punched. 

No worries he cares less when the weather warms, an odd parallel, I'll grant you, and spring is on the way. 

[gowlerk 1,912]

51 minutes ago, olofscience said:

The people grounded in reality are the car companies shifting to these, the engineers developing these, investors backing these, and not a random person on a random forum claiming he has "data".

Yes, money talks, bullshit walks. Corporate America is betting big on an electric future. Deadenders are posting big claims to an enduring past on internet forums.