Zoomer Urges POS Biden to Forgive Student Debt via Exec Order...

[gowlerk 1,912]

There needs to be a reasonable way for the middle class, especially the lower middle class, to afford to become educated. It used to be far easier than it is now due to schools catering to mostly moneyed people. The debt load that too many people leave school with is excessive to the point where this conversation is happening. The answer is lowering tuitions. But guess what? That would be just as much a transfer of wealth as debt forgiveness. Just at a different point. Building up the publicly funded schools to the point where they could lower fees is the answer. That would require tax payers to invest in the system, and therefore in the public. An idea that goes completely against the current dominate party's ideology.

[JoeWeber 2,299]

5 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

There needs to be a reasonable way for the middle class, especially the lower middle class, to afford to become educated. It used to be far easier than it is now due to schools catering to mostly moneyed people. The debt load that too many people leave school with is excessive to the point where this conversation is happening. The answer is lowering tuitions. But guess what? That would be just as much a transfer of wealth as debt forgiveness. Just at a different point. Building up the publicly funded schools to the point where they could lower fees is the answer. That would require tax payers to invest in the system, and therefore in the public. An idea that goes completely against the current dominate party's ideology.

Then let's get creative. How about Zero Federal Tax on all public college educators salaries. (yes, skydekker there are in's and outs there) Then add on a tax credit for all state and local income tax obligations. If needed add on a housing allowance. That sort of thing. I'm good with more of my taxes going to our public institutions to help compete with the big endowments.

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

2 hours ago, SkyDekker said:

Education shouldn't be looked at purely as an investment from a monetary perspective, but also from a societal perspective. A rich culture should be more than a golden toilet. 

Hi Sky,

Re:  'Education shouldn't be looked at purely as an investment from a monetary perspective'

This what is was for me.  I did not want to end up on the wrong end of a shovel like so many of my cousins/family members.

Re:  'also from a societal perspective. A rich culture should be more than a golden toilet'

This what it became for me.  And, what it has become for my two children; who's education I paid for 100%.

About two yrs after I started college ( ex-GI - going to school part-time ) and wondering where I would get the next buck to keep me going; I promised myself, that if I could, my children would never have to pay a penny for their college education.

These are investments in our future & should be highly valued.

Jerry Baumchen

 

[Phil1111 911]

Upper education is a driver of future economic growth.

Price Of College Increasing Almost 8 Times Faster Than Wages

'There is a tremendous disconnect between the rising costs of education and the flattening of wages, which is only making it harder for graduates to make ends meet while paying back staggering amounts of student loans.

So What Is the Impact Of This Disconnect? This combination of a boom in student loans and nearly static wage growth helps explain why so many young adults are drowning in student debt."

"Germany is the polar opposite to the United States in terms of costs of higher education. Germany’s higher education system is entirely publicly funded and its 2.4 million students pay absolutely nothing in tuition fees. Tuition fees in Germany were originally abolished in 1971, though they made a brief comeback from 2006 to 2014, where they averaged at €500 ($630 USD). But due to massive unpopularity, they were once again abolished."

MAGA and trump are drivers of future economic stupidity!

[gowlerk 1,912]

1 minute ago, JerryBaumchen said:

I did not want to end up on the wrong end of a shovel like so many of my cousins/family members.

Is there a right end?

[Phil1111 911]

1 minute ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Sky,

Re:  'Education shouldn't be looked at purely as an investment from a monetary perspective'

This what is was for me.  I did not want to end up on the wrong end of a shovel like so many of my cousins/family members....

These are investments in our future & should be highly valued.

Jerry Baumchen

 

Engineers are shovel operators as well. They just do it with slide rules and pencils.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

9 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

Engineers are shovel operators as well. They just do it with slide rules and pencils.

Do you know how much a good heavy equipment operator makes?

[wmw999 2,122]

9 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

Upper education is a driver of future economic growth.

 

MAGA and trump are drivers of future economic stupidity!

Interesting. Looking at this chart, I see Brazil way below even the next higher country. I know a little there, and it explains. In Brazil, the (much cheaper and highly-contested) public universities are test-based meritocracies. There is an entrance exam, which you can only pass if you're either brilliant or have gone to (expensive) private schools and taking a test prep class. These are not the same as the US PSAT; they are much more comprehensive and knowledge-based.

If you're smart and poor (especially if you went to the poorly-funded public schools), you have to go to a private university and hope for a scholarship. A lot of private "universities" are for-profit, with varying levels of dedication to actual learning. Only the Catholic universities are closer to what we in the US would consider to be a private college.

So if you want to see what happens when you turn it more and more into a "meritocracy," look at Brazil. Look at its position on the world economic stage. I love Brazil, but fuck that.

Wendy P.

[Phil1111 911]

58 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

Do you know how much a good heavy equipment operator makes?

Yeah a friend of mine was a "operating engineer" i.e. a grader and dozer operator on pipelines. Massive overtime, they all lived in trailers and collected $100 a day living allowance(30 years ago). All Union jobs and after 3-4 months work would take the rest of the year off collecting unemployment benefits. New Chevy truck every year, etc. etc

[DougH 270]

16 hours ago, SkyDekker said:

I don't think anecdote trumps data. Student debt overwhelmingly effects the poorer and the minorities among society.

Again you are comparing college graduate to college graduate. You shouldn't extol the virtues of data when you are using the statistics wrong.

Roughly 30% of the US population has 4-year degrees.

Minorities have an even lower percentage of college degrees against their peer group, something like 10 or 11% for Latinos and 17% for African Americans.

Student debt may overwhelmingly affect poorer and minorities due to multiple circumstances, but that isn't consistent with how degrees and education debt is distributed.