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EvilDuck

Initiating a flare for best altitude gain

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Hello. Beginner (~300 ws jumps, 200 in a small suit, ~100 in intermediate) wingsuit pilot looking for advice here :) I am trying to learn how to gain as much altitude as possible in my WS, but I really struggle at the moment. I jump a lot of solo jumps where I just dive-level-flare the whole jump using Flysight, but most of the time is can see I waste all that energy I have at the beginning of the flare. I have of course watched and read all videos and articles on the topic. What causes the most confusion for me is the input needed to start transitioning into level flight. In Squirrel video they say "push your toes down". What the hell exactly does that mean? I'm assuming my toes should still remain pointed and stretching the suit. Where should this movement come from? Does it mean adding pressure to the legwing through bending in hips using your abs? I have noticed, my best flares so far (12 and 10 meters (39 and 33 feet)) came from jumps where I did not do a steep dive and was going full power at GR 1+ and then started the flare, which again indicates I waste all power transitioning from the steep dive. Could someone help me out with the advice on this? 

I fly AG Inspire 2 which is very similar to ATC2, here is an example of my better flares (https://skyderby.ru/tracks/51391, https://skyderby.ru/tracks/46946) and here is the example of "wasteful" (https://skyderby.ru/tracks/51356)

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4 hours ago, EvilDuck said:

Hello. Beginner (~300 ws jumps, 200 in a small suit, ~100 in intermediate) wingsuit pilot looking for advice here :) I am trying to learn how to gain as much altitude as possible in my WS, but I really struggle at the moment. I jump a lot of solo jumps where I just dive-level-flare the whole jump using Flysight, but most of the time is can see I waste all that energy I have at the beginning of the flare. I have of course watched and read all videos and articles on the topic. What causes the most confusion for me is the input needed to start transitioning into level flight. In Squirrel video they say "push your toes down". What the hell exactly does that mean? I'm assuming my toes should still remain pointed and stretching the suit. Where should this movement come from? Does it mean adding pressure to the legwing through bending in hips using your abs? I have noticed, my best flares so far (12 and 10 meters (39 and 33 feet)) came from jumps where I did not do a steep dive and was going full power at GR 1+ and then started the flare, which again indicates I waste all power transitioning from the steep dive. Could someone help me out with the advice on this? 

I fly AG Inspire 2 which is very similar to ATC2, here is an example of my better flares (https://skyderby.ru/tracks/51391, https://skyderby.ru/tracks/46946) and here is the example of "wasteful" (https://skyderby.ru/tracks/51356)

PM me

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(edited)
11 hours ago, birdynamnam said:

PM me

Oh come on. Unless you are hoping for dick picks why don't you just share it with all of us? (And you can share those dick pics by pm if you want)

Fwiw to the OP, the transition from dive to level before the flare works best if it's done smooth and slow. Put the earphones in that flysight set to ping you the speed, and work on levelling and staying level without losing speed. More often than not a too quick levelling just causes a lot of drag due to changing the angle of attack too much, when at that stage you want to change pitch while maintaining the AoA as much as possible.

Edited by GoneCodFishing
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6 hours ago, GoneCodFishing said:

Oh come on. Unless you are hoping for dick picks why don't you just share it with all of us? (And you can share those dick pics by pm if you want)

Fwiw to the OP, the transition from dive to level before the flare works best if it's done smooth and slow. Put the earphones in that flysight set to ping you the speed, and work on levelling and staying level without losing speed. More often than not a too quick levelling just causes a lot of drag due to changing the angle of attack too much, when at that stage you want to change pitch while maintaining the AoA as much as possible.

oh well, since you posted the best advice here now, we are all good

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For me, the "pushing the toes down" did not work as well. I initiate my flare from level flight by pushing the arms down a little, then add pressure gradually as the angle of attack is getting steeper. Toes pointed, as if I would stand up in my suit. Not too much movement with the head and tension in my core muscles to stay as flat through my body as possible

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(edited)

@GoneCodFishing hit it on the head. Also remember to always fly with 0 dihedral sweep no matter your angle of pitch. 

 

If you're pushing your arms down to flare, then you're not really flaring. The only thing that should change is your head position && posture.

 

When you're diving you're like the hunchback of Notre Dame, when you're flaring think about having great posture and getting as long possible,while slightly lifting your head.

Edited by RolandForbes

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(edited)
16 hours ago, RolandForbes said:

@GoneCodFishing hit it on the head. Also remember to always fly with 0 dihedral sweep no matter your angle of pitch. 

May I ask if you solely mean a "zero degree an/dihedral angle" other than a zero degree wing sweep, which by design modern wingsuit don't have (anymore).

Edited by wingsweet
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(edited)

The key to the biggest flares is 1) building up a lot of total speed, and 2) efficiently converting that into a flare. This is an example of a huge flare with 314ft of altitude gain:

flareDistance2.png.9245c128f7dca1036fa1e1c3ff6c17a1.png

I think it's most useful to look at the speed polar:

flareSpeed2.png.fcc8c8871f5387885bacefebda3205cf.png

What this shows is (1) building up a huge amount of speed by diving aggressively. (2) continuing to dive but increasing the horizontal component of velocity. (3) as smoothly as possible exchange airspeed for lift. (3) begin going up. (4) maximum upward velocity 45 mph. (5) top of the flare, when vertical velocity hits zero.

If you flare too hard, or if you break it up into "phases" between 2/3/4, you will lose more energy and not gain as much altitude. Also if you flare too gradually, you will bleed off speed due to drag and not gain as much altitude. It's a balance.

Interestingly on this track, (2) has more total speed than (1). I actually think it should be more efficient to not go quite as vertical as that jump, and short cut the transition from 1 to 2. The main thing is to maximize total speed before the flare, but if you can do the same total speed at 1:1 glide as when vertical, then you're in a better position to start the flare.

Edited by platypii
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(edited)
On 3/6/2021 at 2:47 AM, wingsweet said:

May I ask if you solely mean a "zero degree an/dihedral angle" other than a zero degree wing sweep, which by design modern wingsuit don't have (anymore).

Keep your arms flat the entire time you’re flying. You flare by taking the whole flat wingsuit/body and pointing it downward to gain a lot of speed, and then you flatten it out and finally you point it “upward” which causes a flare. Diving and flaring shouldn’t be initiated by “sweeping” then  flattening the arms. 
 

If you go back and watch the early ‘proximity flying’ videos you’ll see most people were diving by sweeping their arms back (dihedral) which will cause you to fly steeper, but you’re giving up power compared to when you watch the newer terrain flyers that don’t have any V shape to their arms because they’re taking the whole wingsuit with the arms flat and pointing it down the mountain which results in higher speeds and much bigger flares when they need to pull off the line. I think Scotty Bob was one of the first people to really start doing it. Since then it’s become standard practice for diving and flaring. 
 

the TopGun BASE site has all that info in a much more drawn out and technical approach but essentially just dive without pulling your arms back and flare without dropping your arms and you’ll be going faster and flaring higher. 

Edited by skydave89

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