Jordan Peterson

[billvon 2,400]

11 hours ago, mbohu said:

3. Even if no (conscious or unconscious) "racism" by the employer is involved, this is a case of the effects of institutionalized racism. If, for historic reasons, people of a specific race (as you said, billvon) are now less educated and less prepared for employment, then I think it is reasonable to want to do SOMETHING to help them make up that gap and even the scales at least to some extent. But HOW to do that is a tricky thing: Can you force the employer by law to have to hire less qualified people solely to make up a certain quota from specific races (or other groupings)? (Man, that would be a hard pill to swallow for my small business! I'd sure prefer a different way...but would/should I be willing to make that "sacrifice"?) So the HOW is really something we can argue about, I think. (Many people even argue the IF of this question, but I think it shows at least a certain lack of empathy)

Agreed with the above.  And I would add (and this has been echoed by others here) that if you claim "there's no way a black person can be racist in the US!" the only way that makes sense is to refer to that institutional or structural racism.  No white person will be discriminated against the way black people are in the US, because we have a legacy of that institutional racism.  We are slowly getting past it, but it's still there.

As to affirmative action, I think it was critical to get past a lot of the barriers to employment that existed in the 1950's.  That need is now greatly diminished, and I think diversity programs (designed to counter homophily) are better solutions than affirmative action (which was designed to counter both personal and institutional racism.)

[TriGirl 268]

I have to chime in on the misuse of a word.

Toxic masculinity is not the gender opposite of toxic feminism.  The word I think you're all looking for is femininity, not feminism.

Dr. Peterson started it. He first said (per the Wiki article and subsequent quoting here) that feminism contributed to the threat to masculinity.  He continued by positing men were encouraged to be more feminine under this construct, which illustrates his misuse of the word "feminism". This is not how feminism works.

Feminism, is simply the idea that everyone has the right to the same opportunities, having their abilities judged without regard to gender (including men being able to take on roles that society has assigned to women).  That is a very basic example -- gender identity should be included in this freedom.  The patriarchy is the construct that only cis-gendered men have the right, or should be encouraged, to be in positions of power and influence.  Laws restricting women's equal access (or the opportunities of anyone who isn't a cis-gendered, hetero male), per the patriarchy, at best are seen as a desire to "protect" women, and at worst are intended to codify the cis-gendered man's lock on these opportunities.

[/soapbox]

[brenthutch 383]

Somebody took too many Woman's Studies classes in college ;-)  And somebody needs to tell Tim Cook, Mary Barra, Alan Joyce, Gail Boudreaux, Peter Thiel, Ginny Rometty, Martine Rothblatt, Indra Nooyi, Nick Denton, Marilyn Henson,  Inga Beale, Safra Catz, Peter Arvai, Hayley Sudbury, Phebe Novakovic and Joel Simkhai that they are the victims of a “cis” gender patriarchy. 

[jakee 1,255]

4 hours ago, brenthutch said:

And somebody needs to tell Tim Cook, Mary Barra, Alan Joyce, Gail Boudreaux, Peter Thiel, Ginny Rometty, Martine Rothblatt, Indra Nooyi, Nick Denton, Marilyn Henson,  Inga Beale, Safra Catz, Peter Arvai, Hayley Sudbury, Phebe Novakovic and Joel Simkhai that they are the victims of a “cis” gender patriarchy. 

Why?

[brenthutch 383]

Because they are all beneficiaries of the “cis gender hierarchy” yet they are all gay and /or women 

[jakee 1,255]

7 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Because they are all beneficiaries of the “cis gender hierarchy” yet they are all gay and /or women 

So? What's your point?

[gowlerk 1,914]

11 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Because they are all beneficiaries of the “cis gender hierarchy” yet they are all gay and /or women 

I will not bite. I will not ask what nonsense the you are talking about or where it comes from. I don't want to know.....

[billvon 2,400]

On 9/7/2019 at 5:54 AM, brenthutch said:

Somebody took too many Woman's Studies classes in college ;-)

I think it's funny that in the age of Trump, "you're educated" is an insult.

[Coreece 190]

On 9/7/2019 at 12:54 PM, brenthutch said:

 somebody needs to tell Tim Cook, Mary Barra, Alan Joyce, Gail Boudreaux, Peter Thiel, Ginny Rometty, Martine Rothblatt, Indra Nooyi, Nick Denton, Marilyn Henson,  Inga Beale, Safra Catz, Peter Arvai, Hayley Sudbury, Phebe Novakovic and Joel Simkhai that they are the victims of a “cis” gender patriarchy. 

Dude, how offensive!  You can't even get their damn names right:

Tim Apple, Mary Motors, Alan Qantas, Gail Anthem, Peter Paypal, Ginny Ibm, Martine Sirius, Indra Pepsi, Nick Gawker, Marilyn who, Inga Lloyd of London, Safra Oracle, Peter Prezi, Hayley Werkin, Phebe Dynamics, and Joel Grindr.

[TriGirl 268]

On ‎9‎/‎3‎/‎2019 at 6:02 PM, TriGirl said:

I have to chime in on the misuse of a word.

Toxic masculinity is not the gender opposite of toxic feminism.  The word I think you're all looking for is femininity, not feminism.

I'll correct myself here.  I heard a better description on Bill Maher this weekend.  The problem on the one side was better identified as male chauvinism (take out the phrase "toxic masculinity" entirely).  The counter to this, which should have been a good thing, has in some cases become an equal problem: female chauvinism.  I like that comparison better.  It's more accurately descriptive, IMHO.

Edited September 10, 2019 by TriGirl
clarity

[TriGirl 268]

On ‎9‎/‎7‎/‎2019 at 8:54 AM, brenthutch said:

Somebody took too many Woman's Studies classes in college ;-) 

Actually, I studied Physics and Russian in college.  It's the 24+ years in the Marine Corps that has better shaped my impressions of the patriarchy.

Yep, it's a closed society, with a higher concentration of the attitude; but at least as a service we're working really hard to counter that culture.

[brenthutch 383]

I was just kidding (notice the winking emoji) Thank you for your service.

[jakee 1,255]

1 hour ago, brenthutch said:

I was just kidding (notice the winking emoji) 

To be fair, that was what made it sound extra snide.