Trump's economic plan

[Phil1111 911]

wmw999

I was ascribing the Obama "ascendency" to a celebrity culture. Of course not everyone hies to it (thank goodness), but dang, there are enough celebrity magazines to make it pretty clear that a lot of people are interested in what can only be considered a form of voyeurism.

Think of "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous," and extrapolate. Think of full-time image managers employed by so many people, and the image consultants out there.

I remember learning in 7th grade social studies about the movie and celebrity magazines of the 30's and 40's and thinking about how stupid that sounded. It still sounds stupid, but that doesn't make it any less real.

Wendy P.

Agree. Remember the ideas of a clean Olympics. Its gone the way of professional cycling, thanks Lance Armstrong. Or is it just that media exposure has revealed whats always been a part of the events?

Athletes like Barry Sanders who would score and hand the ball to the linesman without so much as fist pump. Have now been replaced by entire offenses acting as if they had just invented a new play.

There has always been a segment of a population that worshiped kings, queens, the wealthy, war heroes, etc. ...Oh my thats what trump followers used to describe why they voted for him.

Its interesting that Iago, Ron would throw celebrity into the discussion. When behind their political movement is nothing less than a crooked populist.Who used his wealth, helicopters, jets, and TV celebrity to paint himself as the savior of the disenfranchised.

Straight from the Putin, FSB, playbook. Make counter accusations, lie, deny, peddle a false counter-narrative.

[billvon 2,400]

Quote

This place used to be fun. Now it’s like my high school Model UN group with a bunch of kids thinking and acting like they’re really UN delegates and are actually going to change the world by their incredibly heated debates in the Wilson-Magnet school auditorium and getting into screaming matches in the hallway.

People have been saying that about Speakers Corner since 2002. Before that, even. "This place is a piece of shit compared to rec.skydiving! You're all a bunch of politically correct pussies!"

Fortunately there are always alternatives for people who don't like it. I am always amused by the people who spend their time on any forum saying "this forum sucks!" - rather than just finding one they prefer.

[billvon 2,400]

>Agree. Remember the ideas of a clean Olympics. Its gone the way of professional
>cycling, thanks Lance Armstrong.

I don't remember that. The first doping incident in the Olympics was in 1968 - before my time.

>Athletes like Barry Sanders who would score and hand the ball to the linesman without
>so much as fist pump. Have now been replaced by entire offenses acting as if they had
>just invented a new play.

There have always been both kinds of athletes in professional sports.

[ryoder 1,384]

Phil1111

Agree. Remember the ideas of a clean Olympics. Its gone the way of professional cycling, thanks Lance Armstrong.

Lance was born in 1971.
Now look at these cases and try to blame it all on him:

List of doping cases in cycling: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_doping_cases_in_cycling

Doping at the Tour de France: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_at_the_Tour_de_France

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[Phil1111 911]

ryoder

***
Agree. Remember the ideas of a clean Olympics. Its gone the way of professional cycling, thanks Lance Armstrong.

Lance was born in 1971.
Now look at these cases and try to blame it all on him:

List of doping cases in cycling: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_doping_cases_in_cycling

Doping at the Tour de France: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doping_at_the_Tour_de_France

I recognize that Armstong wasn't the first performance doper. But it seems as if he institutionalized, a professional-systematic approach on a annual basis. To enrich himself while driving championships to himself and his team.

He alone drove the cheating at the USPS team, did it for years and it enriched himself by 10's of millions of dollars. Prior to Armstrong it was individuals and state sponsored, state assisted individuals and state teams.

[billvon 2,400]

>I recognize that Armstong wasn't the first performance doper. But it seems as if he
>institutionalized, a professional-systematic approach on a annual basis. To enrich himself
>while driving championships to himself and his team.

??? Huh? In 1930, doping was so common that the rule book for the Tour de France mentioned that the organizers would not provide drugs, so competitors would have to bring their own. Having a TdF where everyone was NOT doped for every race is a relatively recent development. It wasn't until 1964 that the first anti-doping law was passed in France - and it was only passed because a lot of riders were falling off bikes, seriously injuring and even killing themselves due to the constant usage.

[ryoder 1,384]

Phil1111

I recognize that Armstong wasn't the first performance doper. But it seems as if he institutionalized, a professional-systematic approach on a annual basis. To enrich himself while driving championships to himself and his team.

He alone drove the cheating at the USPS team, did it for years and it enriched himself by 10's of millions of dollars. Prior to Armstrong it was individuals and state sponsored, state assisted individuals and state teams.

Ever heard of the Festina Affair?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Festina_affair

It was a watershed event in pro cycling.

Prior to that, the doping was done by team doctors and paid for by the team.
After that event, the teams adopted the Sergeant Schultz attitude:
"We know nothing! We don't want to know anything!"
i.e. they expected cyclists to dope, but due to the Festina Affair holding management criminally responsible, they didn't want to know about it. Be aware that under French law, there is no difference between PEDs and heroin/cocaine/etc.

Now look at the date of Armstrong's first TdF win: 1999, the year after the 1998 Festina Affair. He was effective because he was not deterred by the Festina fallout, and quickly learned to manage his own doping program.

Note, I am not defending LA; He is a sociopath who uses people, and then throws them under the bus. But he did not invent doping, and when he left cycling, the doping remained.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[Phil1111 911]

ryoder

***

I recognize that Armstong wasn't the first performance doper. But it seems as if he institutionalized, a professional-systematic approach on a annual basis. To enrich himself while driving championships to himself and his team.

He alone drove the cheating at the USPS team, did it for years and it enriched himself by 10's of millions of dollars. Prior to Armstrong it was individuals and state sponsored, state assisted individuals and state teams.

Ever heard of the Festina Affair?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Festina_affair

It was a watershed event in pro cycling.

Prior to that, the doping was done by team doctors and paid for by the team.
After that event, the teams adopted the Sergeant Schultz attitude:
"We know nothing! We don't want to know anything!"
i.e. they expected cyclists to dope, but due to the Festina Affair holding management criminally responsible, they didn't want to know about it. Be aware that under French law, there is no difference between PEDs and heroin/cocaine/etc.

Now look at the date of Armstrong's first TdF win: 1999, the year after the 1998 Festina Affair. He was effective because he was not deterred by the Festina fallout, and quickly learned to manage his own doping program.

Note, I am not defending LA; He is a sociopath who uses people, and then throws them under the bus. But he did not invent doping, and when he left cycling, the doping remained.

Well, clearly you and Billvon have discovered a most serious defect. In my knowledge, understanding of both cycling and doping. You are both right. I'd almost state now that cycling is the most corrupted sport in athletics. But my confidence is now so shaken by previous ignorance in this area. That i need to study this entire area further.

The breadth of corruption of the sport. Is so deep, persuasive, well documented and complete. That my brain feels as if its competed a 100k ride fueled by water alone. That the glucose levels are so low that a dozen bananas won't remedy the assault on my being.

I'll retire to the team car and toss my bib to the wind in defeat. Its time to sell the Trek.

[ryoder 1,384]

One of my favorite quotes from cyclist Fausto Coppi:


Question: Do cyclists take la bomba (amphetamine)?

Answer: Yes, and those who claim otherwise, it's not worth talking to them about cycling.

Question: And you, did you take la bomba?

Answer: Yes. Whenever it was necessary.

Question: And when was it necessary?

Answer: Almost all the time!



Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fausto_Coppi#Doping

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[RonD1120 58]

ryoder

One of my favorite quotes from cyclist Fausto Coppi:


Question: Do cyclists take la bomba (amphetamine)?

Answer: Yes, and those who claim otherwise, it's not worth talking to them about cycling.

Question: And you, did you take la bomba?

Answer: Yes. Whenever it was necessary.

Question: And when was it necessary?

Answer: Almost all the time!



Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fausto_Coppi#Doping

Reality is for people who can't handle drugs.

In the old days that was the counterpoint for those accused of attempting to escape reality.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[normiss 622]

Some people still don't understand humor.
Some never will.

[RonD1120 58]

normiss

Some people still don't understand humor.
Some never will.

I agree

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[jakee 1,255]

Phil1111

Well, clearly you and Billvon have discovered a most serious defect. In my knowledge, understanding of both cycling and doping. You are both right. I'd almost state now that cycling is the most corrupted sport in athletics.

That's incredibly naive.

AFAIk the highest VO2 Max ever recorded was for a cross country skier. How did he manage to beat Lance or Big Mig? Or marathon runners - think for any reason that's less competitive with less at stake than cycling? Or the IAAF's apparent complicity in several national federation coverups, including the early stages of the Russia fiasco...

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Phil1111 911]

Forget the trade truce: Trump’s tariffs are killing U.S. jobs
Factory jobs are going to China, and to Vietnam and Cambodia
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/forget-the-trade-truce-trumps-tariffs-are-killing-us-jobs-2018-12-05

President Donald Trump’s trade war was meant to bring lost manufacturing jobs back to the U.S.

However, it appears to be sending factory jobs out of the U.S. And while Trump punished some foreign competitors, he actually rewarded others. ...

Last year’s Tax Cuts and Jobs Act was long on tax cuts and short on jobs. Its hastily drawn provisions include one called GILTI that can reward U.S. companies for moving production overseas."

Record imports push U.S. trade deficit to $55.5 billion
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/economy/record-imports-push-u-s-trade-deficit-to-55-5-billion

Record imports in October drove the U.S. trade deficit to the highest level in a decade.

The Commerce Department said Thursday that the gap between the United States sells and what it buys from foreign countries hit $55.5 billion in October, the fifth straight increase and highest since October 2008.

The politically sensitive deficit in the trade of goods with China rose 7.1 percent to a record $43.1 billion. The goods gap with the European Union widened 65.5 percent to a record $17.6 billion.

US October budget deficit jumps to $100.5 billion
https://www.boston.com/news/politics/2018/11/13/us-october-budget-deficit-jumps-to-100-5-billion

Which now puts 2019 on track for a $1.2 trillion deficit.

[SkyDekker 1,123]

wmw999

I was ascribing the Obama "ascendency" to a celebrity culture. Of course not everyone hies to it (thank goodness), but dang, there are enough celebrity magazines to make it pretty clear that a lot of people are interested in what can only be considered a form of voyeurism.

Think of "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous," and extrapolate. Think of full-time image managers employed by so many people, and the image consultants out there.

I remember learning in 7th grade social studies about the movie and celebrity magazines of the 30's and 40's and thinking about how stupid that sounded. It still sounds stupid, but that doesn't make it any less real.

Wendy P.

How is that any different from the Kennedy's?