USS Fitzgerald - accident or Intentional

[wan2doit 6]

Sunday's network talking heads mention the US ship hit the container ship BUT the track of the ships shown on main networks clearly illustrate the container ship made almost a complete U-Turn (145 +- degrees counter clockwise) after nearly missing the aft of the US ship on the 1st pass to come back and eventually ramming and nearly sinking the USS Fitzgerald during a 2nd pass.

Maybe someone here can explain how this could possibly be an accident.

[quade 3]

Can somebody explain to me how a container ship out maneuvers a destroyer to ram it?

Container ships do NOT turn on a dime and the ACX Crystal is roughly five times more massive than the Fitz. It would have taken the container ship maybe 15 minutes to a half hour to make a turn such as described.

Regardless of any conspiracy theories, this was almost certainly avoidable by the Fitz, if only it had.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[wan2doit 6]

To me nothing adds up so far on this near catastrophe.

Tragic for the crew members - condolences to them for sure.

What a horror this must have been for them.

[Phil1111 911]

0130 hours
Junior officer at the bridge.
U turn by cargo ship in heavy traffic area.

Demotions and early retirements in USN.

Thats a $1.8 billion dollar ship.

[normiss 622]

I would expect responsibility for this mishap to fall fully on the commander of the Fitzgerald.

I can't imagine waking up drowning in a dog zebra enclosed space.

Rest easy shipmates, we have the watch.

[nolhtairt 0]

at least 400 container ships traverse that corridor every day. I'm not going to speculate on how and why it happened, but it did happen at what, 2:20 AM or so? Wasn't somebody supposed to be manning the ship radar that sees other ships in close proximity? If yes, you'd think evasive maneuvers would have been ordered.

Some heads are gonna roll (not literally).

[wan2doit 6]

"U turn by cargo ship in heavy traffic area. " - very big deal IMHO

Hopefully we'll find out what that was about.

[DJL 232]

Not intentional.

If the vessel made a U-turn it's possible that they had removed the contact from the list of vessels they were tracking electronically since it had already gone by them.

There would have been someone standing watch on that starboard bridge wing just above the damage. He would've seen red/green on a constant bearing but not moving left or right all the way until collision. It's easy to say that he should've seen it but he also has radio chatter coming back through his ear as each watch updates their visual contacts while tracking literally an ocean of flashing and moving lights.

Navy salts I've talked to have also said that some vessels don't transmit their locations.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[billvon 2,400]

>Maybe someone here can explain how this could possibly be an accident.

Hanlon's Razor - Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

[quade 3]

nolhtairt

at least 400 container ships traverse that corridor every day. I'm not going to speculate on how and why it happened, but it did happen at what, 2:20 AM or so? Wasn't somebody supposed to be manning the ship radar that sees other ships in close proximity? If yes, you'd think evasive maneuvers would have been ordered.

Some heads are gonna roll (not literally).

Not just ships radar, but also the venerable mark-1 eyeball on the forecastle, stern, port, and starboard.

The amount of failure which had to happen for this to occur is astounding.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[quade 3]

DJL

Navy salts I've talked to have also said that some vessels don't transmit their locations.

Regardless of whether the container ship was transmitting, the Fitz should have seen it coming in a couple of ways, AND shouldn't the Fitz ALWAYS be looking out for threats from small Zodiacs filled with explosives to generic navigational threats?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Phil1111 911]

USS John McCain collides with merchant ship east of Singapore, 10 sailors missing, US Navy says
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-08-21/uss-john-mccain-collides-with-merchant-ship/8826298

Barely a week after disciplinary actions were handed down in the Fitzgerald collision.

[quade 3]

Once was insane.

Twice? Is there a systemic issue with the basic seamanship in the US Navy now?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Phil1111 911]

Once is a indication that something is very wrong. This is not a bridge where a single sailor is tired after a long 12 hour watch.

Twice??? Some senior admirals who are overseeing command selection should be answering some questions. Serious career ending type questions.

[jclalor 12]

The Navy is always running into things. While on board the USS Constellation, we ran into a freighter in the IO. It always amazed me how we could be underway at night with how dark the flight deck would get with no lights and no moon, you couldn't see your hand in front of your face.

[quade 3]

jclalor

The Navy is always running into things. While on board the USS Constellation, we ran into a freighter in the IO. It always amazed me how we could be underway at night with how dark the flight deck would get with no lights and no moon, you couldn't see your hand in front of your face.

When was this? I can find no record of the Connie having any significant collision.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Constellation_(CV-64)
http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/navy-ships/a27021/ship-collisions-us-navy-history/

Collisions do happen, but "always running into things" is, I think, an exaggeration.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[jclalor 12]

This is a great site for ex Navy. Take a look at the time line
From 1980.

http://www.navysite.de/cvn/cv64.htm

[yoink 321]

DJL

He would've seen red/green on a constant bearing but not moving left or right all the way until collision.

But that's an instant alarm to any private sailor, let alone a navy trained seaman.

Being able to see red and green without any aspect change means only one thing - Move and make yourself known any way you can.

[normiss 622]

I wonder why it's a German website?

[jclalor 12]

I'm not wise in the way of computers, I just know I was about to spend $300 on EBAY for my long lost cruise book, and this site has them all.

What do you mean by German?

[normiss 622]

.DE domain extension

[quade 3]

Ah, now I see it. Minor damage, no injuries (at least officially), and probably why I didn't see it anywhere else. Okay.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[DJL 232]

yoink

***He would've seen red/green on a constant bearing but not moving left or right all the way until collision.

But that's an instant alarm to any private sailor, let alone a navy trained seaman.

Being able to see red and green without any aspect change means only one thing - Move and make yourself known any way you can.

CBDR is very hard to distinguish in a harbor with a million lights on the shore-line. Add in some drowsy 20-year old watch-standers who think CIC and the bridge have a better eye on things and this isn't surprising.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[Phil1111 911]

Commander Of Navy's 7th Fleet Dismissed After Series Of Ship Mishaps

"Adm. Scott Swift, commander of U.S. Pacific Fleet, today relieved the commander of Seventh Fleet, Vice Adm. Joseph Aucoin, due to a loss of confidence in his ability to command.

"Rear Adm. Phil Sawyer, who has already been nominated and confirmed for the position and promotion to Vice Adm., will assume command immediately."

Aucoin's removal follows four accidents involving Navy ships in the Pacific this year.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/08/23/545423389/commander-of-navys-7th-fleet-to-be-removed-after-collisions-reports-say

[gowlerk 1,914]

America has an incredible military system and culture. But she may be getting tired of paying to maintain it.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/24/politics/navy-readiness-crisis-military/index.html

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.