Drinking from a fire hose...

[brenthutch 388]

billvon

>If $4 trillion is unpatriotic, I think you would agree with me that $8 trillion is downright treasonous.

Cool! You backed off from your previous lie of "doubled" and are now back to the standard right wing tactic of calling people names. At this rate, within 5-10 more posts you'll be pretty close to reality.

Actually I was being generous, factcheck.org says obama has more than doubled the debt. CNN says, "
By January 2009, the United States had accumulated $10.6 trillion in debt. That's the net amount the country had borrowed from Washington through the Bush years.
The gross national debt now stands at $19.7 trillion. That's an increase of $9.1 trillion — not quite a doubling, but pretty close." And that was three months ago.

Show me your numbers and sources.

[Phil1111 913]

brenthutch

***>If $4 trillion is unpatriotic, I think you would agree with me that $8 trillion is downright treasonous.

Cool! You backed off from your previous lie of "doubled" and are now back to the standard right wing tactic of calling people names. At this rate, within 5-10 more posts you'll be pretty close to reality.

Actually I was being generous, factcheck.org says obama has more than doubled the debt. CNN says, "
By January 2009, the United States had accumulated $10.6 trillion in debt. That's the net amount the country had borrowed from Washington through the Bush years.
The gross national debt now stands at $19.7 trillion. That's an increase of $9.1 trillion — not quite a doubling, but pretty close." And that was three months ago.

Show me your numbers and sources.

"False
Ribble
Says President Barack Obama "built this $16 trillion debt."

— Reid Ribble on Thursday, August 30th, 2012 in an interview
President Obama 'built' nation's $16 trillion debt, GOP Rep. Reid Ribble says

Ribble said Obama "built this $16 trillion debt." His spokeswoman said Ribble meant that the debt had reached that level because of Obama.

But Ribble used the $16 trillion figure, not the roughly $5 trillion that the debt has increased under Obama. Moreover, the debt grew not only due to Obama’s actions, but those taken by present and past presidents and Congresses.

We rate Ribble’s statement False.
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/statements/2012/sep/12/reid-ribble/president-obama-built-nations-16-trillion-debt-gop/

"Importantly, though, President Obama did sign many laws worsening this debt situation. Among the most significant are the 2009 stimulus, extending the 2001/2003 tax cuts temporarily in 2010 and making most of them permanent in 2012, the 2015 permanent "doc fix," and the tax extenders/omnibus bill at the end of 2015. President Obama also signed several pieces of legislation to reduce projected debt, most significantly the Budget Control Act. But importantly, these laws were written not by the president but by Congress.

It is Congress that passes tax and spending legislation. There is little the president can do to impact the debt, positively or negatively, without a bill passed by Congress. Conversly there is little Congress can do without the president's signature or a veto-proof supermajority. Further, during most of Obama's term to date, control of Congress was split between a Democratic Senate and a Republican House. Both branches share blame, both for legislation that increased the debt and for failing to enact legislation that would curb the debt growth that was already projected to occur from the growth of entitlement programs and insufficient revenues.

***

By a few metrics, debt has doubled during the Obama presidency. The blame though is not only on him because some of the debt increase over the past eight years was already expected to occur, and Congress had to approve bills that increased the debt. Interestingly, debt held by the public would double again by 2024 under Trump's proposed plans – so while he is right about what's happened under President Obama's watch, his plan will make the problem worse.
Our Rating: It's Complicated"
http://crfb.org/blogs/has-president-obama-doubled-national-debt

Total debt or debt/GDP is an equal measure of burden to put upon future generations to repay.

Perhaps politicians pay should be tied to balanced budgets. If projected revenues are unmatched by expenses pensions would have to be held back as well.

I think a profits repatriation bill is a good idea. But it should not be a blank check for corporate America.

[brenthutch 388]

You quoted a source from 2012, it is now 2017. Update your information.

[kallend 1,644]

brenthutch

Actually I was being generous, factcheck.org says obama has more than doubled the debt.

So how do you feel about a president who tripled the debt?

(His name was Ronald Reagan).

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Phil1111 913]

brenthutch

You quoted a source from 2012, it is now 2017. Update your information.

http://www.politifact.com/virginia/statements/2016/sep/12/donald-trump/trump-solely-blames-obama-doubling-debt/

and the other quote was July 2016.

You do know the last budget was submitted Feb 2, 2015 for the 2016 year?

Anyway back to the issue of debt. "Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget" finds
:"Study: Trump trade plan would cost 4M U.S. jobs
Thursday, 22 Sep 2016 | 10:14 AM ET | 04:19

The national debt would surge under a Donald Trump presidency, though not as much as originally thought, according to a new analysis.

Trump's stated plans to stimulate the economy through the building of infrastructure, boosting military spending and making sharp tax cuts would increase the national IOU by $5.3 trillion, or roughly 26 times more than Hillary Clinton's"

from
"The CRFB is a bipartisan panel made of former policymakers and legislators looking to bring down the national debt and deficits. Some prominent members include former Indiana Gov. Mitch Daniels, former White House chief of staff Erskine Bowles and former Fed Chairman Paul Volcker. "

[brenthutch 388]

kallend

***

Actually I was being generous, factcheck.org says obama has more than doubled the debt.

So how do you feel about a president who tripled the debt?

(His name was Ronald Reagan).

RR added $1.9 trillion, BHO added $9+trillion. 1.9<9, that is just math. That said, I do think the lack of fiscal discipline is a blemish on his legacy. (Although he did vanquish the "Evil Empire" without firing a shot) Obama on the other hand can't even beat a "JV team." I won't even mention that RR achieved a growth rate of more than double that of BHO.

[kallend 1,644]

brenthutch

******

Actually I was being generous, factcheck.org says obama has more than doubled the debt.

So how do you feel about a president who tripled the debt?

(His name was Ronald Reagan).

RR added $1.9 trillion, BHO added $9+trillion. 1.9<9, that is just math.

I guess the concept of "double" and "triple" escape you, despite YOUR bringing up the doubling of the debt.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[brenthutch 388]

I brought it up as an aside to my main point which was the anemic recovery under BHO.

[brenthutch 388]

kallend

*********

Actually I was being generous, factcheck.org says obama has more than doubled the debt.

So how do you feel about a president who tripled the debt?

(His name was Ronald Reagan).

RR added $1.9 trillion, BHO added $9+trillion. 1.9<9, that is just math.

I guess the concept of "double" and "triple" escape you, despite YOUR bringing up the doubling of the debt.

Perhaps. This is how I understand it.

1X3=3
10X2=20
3<(that means less than)20

I would rather owe $3 than $20.

Where did I go wrong?

[kallend 1,644]

brenthutch

Where did I go wrong?

When you swallowed the right wing Kool Aid.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[brenthutch 388]

It is sad to see you reduced to name calling, although I know it is just your way of conceding the point.

[kallend 1,644]

brenthutch

It is sad to see you reduced to name calling, although I know it is just your way of conceding the point.

Having a little reading comprehension problem today?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 2,426]

>I brought it up as an aside to my main point which was the anemic recovery under BHO.

And now you're backing away from your claim of "The most anemic recovery in the modern era." You're getting closer and closer to reality; good job.

[gowlerk 1,923]

After reading both of you going on about which president increased the federal debt by how much in what years I can't really decide which of you are correct or why it would matter. If Trump's plan comes in it will be a completely irrelevant matter compared to how much he will increase it in four years.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[brenthutch 388]

billvon

>I brought it up as an aside to my main point which was the anemic recovery under BHO.

And now you're backing away from your claim of "The most anemic recovery in the modern era." You're getting closer and closer to reality; good job.

Just where am I backing off of that reality?

http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2016/07/29/seven-years-later-recovery-remains-the-weakest-of-the-post-world-war-ii-era/

[billvon 2,426]

>Just where am I backing off of that reality?

You claimed that it was "The most anemic recovery in the modern era." I demonstrated that you were wrong. Now you have backed off to "the anemic recovery under BHO." In another few posts I expect to see something like "would have been better under Trump" or some other walkback.

[brenthutch 388]

You should stick to engineering, when it comes to economics you are in over your head. BTW I did not back down, I doubled down and provide proof. FYI GDP is the accepted metric for determining recession and recovery.

[billvon 2,426]

>You should stick to engineering, when it comes to economics you are in over your head.

And now you admit defeat, and try to change the subject with an insult! That's pretty much what I expected. At least you know when to give up.

[brenthutch 388]

No, you obviously can't/won't wrap you brain around what the definitions of recession and recovery are, not the HuffPo spin, but the actual definition. I will give you a quick primer. Unemployment rate, deficit, and jobs created are no more acceptable than the workforce participation rate, the number of folks on food stamps or the poverty rate. It is based on something I like to call GDP (gross domestic product). Class dismissed.

[kallend 1,644]

brenthutch

No, you obviously can't/won't wrap you brain around what the definitions of recession and recovery are, not the HuffPo spin, but the actual definition. I will give you a quick primer. Unemployment rate, deficit, and jobs created are no more acceptable than the workforce participation rate, the number of folks on food stamps or the poverty rate. It is based on something I like to call GDP (gross domestic product). Class dismissed.

I'll take Obama's "slow" recovery over his predecessor's worst recession in 80 years any time.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[brenthutch 388]

What you take, and what you don't take, is entirely your prerogative. I support you 100%.

[jakee 1,257]

brenthutch

You should stick to engineering, when it comes to economics you are in over your head. BTW I did not back down, I doubled down and provide proof. FYI GDP is the accepted metric for determining recession and recovery.

You didn't provide any proof or any evidence for your claims over the recovery.

You provided numbers on the debt/defecit, but as you've just said that is not the same thing as recession/recovery.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[wmw999 2,146]

Didn't it take a global war to really pull us out of the Great Depression? I'm no sure that's an improvement over an anemic recovery.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[SkyDekker 1,141]

wmw999

Didn't it take a global war to really pull us out of the Great Depression? I'm no sure that's an improvement over an anemic recovery.

Wendy P.

Yes, but those are details. Details and facts are no longer important.

[billvon 2,426]

Quote

No, you obviously can't/won't wrap you brain around what the definitions of recession and recovery are, not the HuffPo spin, but the actual definition. I will give you a quick primer. Unemployment rate, deficit, and jobs created are no more acceptable than the workforce participation rate, the number of folks on food stamps or the poverty rate. It is based on something I like to call GDP (gross domestic product). Class dismissed.

And now changing the goalposts! You failed miserably on "doubled the debt" and "most anemic recovery in the modern era" so now you switched to GDP.

Keep throwing stuff against the wall - some may stick. And if not, you can try the old standbys of general insults, a quote from Breitbart or (if you get more desperate) changing the subject.