Cops kill another scary looking unarmed black man

[gowlerk 1,926]

http://time.com/4499940/tulsa-police-shooting-video-man-unarmed/?xid=homepage


I'm sure they had a good reason to shoot first, question later. I'm glad these officers will get to go home to their families. Too bad about the dead man's relatives though.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[nolhtairt 0]

We'll see what the dash cam footage shows. Dude probably shouldn't have gotten out of his vehicle or approached police. But it does appear the cops were in the wrong here and should be held accountable.

[gowlerk 1,926]

You can watch several videos of the scene here. The Tulsa police are being very pro-active so far. Warning, graphic video of a real fatal shooting is at this link.

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiBy4TOopzPAhVFwYMKHYZGA7UQqQIIHTAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fheavy.com%2Fnews%2F2016%2F09%2Fterence-crutcher-betty-shelby-tulsa-oklahoma-police-shooting-video-full-uncensored-youtube-audio-unarmed-hands-arms-up%2F&usg=AFQjCNGV1hu0N2kLxZPOuAlCHX22vP1n7Q&bvm=bv.133178914,d.amc

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[lummy 4]

I listened to the police dispatch audio and didn't hear anything that was alarming in my opinion. The first officer on scene stated she found an abandoned vehicle,and had dispatch run the plates which came up clean. Officer then stated that she found a person of interest who wouldn't show her his hands.
Did that alone warrant 5 squad cars to race to the scene? Honestly, is " won't show his hands" police code for "I think he's armed"?

I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1

[TerraDactyl 0]

lummy

Honestly, is " won't show his hands" police code for "I think he's armed"?

They'll say that over the radio in many situations, whether true or not, just so that they have ready-made cover on tape in case they end up having to shoot. Other favorite phrases are things like "he's making furtive movements".

[skycop 0]

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Did that alone warrant 5 squad cars to race to the scene? Honestly, is " won't show his hands" police code for "I think he's armed"?

No, but it's a red flag, especially if it's done repeatedly and other commands are ignored as well. It will be interesting to see the toxicology results on this guy. My WAG is it's either drug related, or a medical/psychological situation. Either way it looks bad, we'll see.

This is what can happen when someone ignores commands to show their hands. Again red flags, there is no do over.

http://www.policeone.com/Officer-Safety/articles/221578006-Video-Austin-police-fatally-shoot-suspect-in-gun-battle/

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[gowlerk 1,926]

skycop

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Did that alone warrant 5 squad cars to race to the scene? Honestly, is " won't show his hands" police code for "I think he's armed"?

No, but it's a red flag, especially if it's done repeatedly and other commands are ignored as well. It will be interesting to see the toxicology results on this guy. My WAG is it's either drug related, or a medical/psychological situation. Either way it looks bad, we'll see.

This is what can happen when someone ignores commands to show their hands. Again red flags, there is no do over.

http://www.policeone.com/Officer-Safety/articles/221578006-Video-Austin-police-fatally-shoot-suspect-in-gun-battle/

Did you watch the video? Could you not see the raised hands? Is this a cop thing you guys just don't always see raised hands very well? Yes, when a man dies because of a cop's incompetence there is no do over. Even the helicopter pilot takes one look from overhead and says on the radio "That looks like a bad dude, too. Probably on something." The man was both large and black, but that's only two strikes. You would think the police could let him get to three strikes before they killed him.

My WAG is that one cop tased him and then the other one panicked and started shooting. Probably because she was already on a hair trigger and the guy falling down from being tased was a "sudden movement".

My other WAG is that a broken down car with a white driver would not have started the escalating situation of fear leading to violence because the first cop would not have been so frightened.

Red flags? Sure, there's a reason to kill.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[skycop 0]

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Did you watch the video? Could you not see the raised hands?

His hands were raised as he walked away, back to the truck, they were not raised after he gets near the drivers door.

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My other WAG is that a broken down car with a white driver would not have started the escalating situation of fear leading to violence because the first cop would not have been so frightened.

You have no idea, but hyperbole seems to be all the rage these days.

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My WAG is that one cop tased him and then the other one panicked and started shooting.

It's very possible, hence the we'll see part.

I linked an actual example of a recent situation where the suspect refused to show his hands. He then waited to draw the officers in, then spun around and opened fire. You chose to ignore that.

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Red flags? Sure, there's a reason to kill.

So yes, it is a red flag, when someone refuses to show their hands, then refuses other commands as well. You may not like it, but that's not relevant to the situation at hand.

For further perspective this last week, there were 5 cops shot within a 48 hour period 2 were targeted along with a targeted stabbing. LEO's also thwarted and responded to 3 terrorist attacks, and engaged in a gun battle with the suspect in one of those attacks.

Are cops on edge? Yes they are. I've had two friends retire recently because they've had enough.

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Yes, when a man dies because of a cop's incompetence there is no do over

In this case, if she panicked there very well could be criminal charges. Again, we'll see.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[gowlerk 1,926]

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You have no idea, but hyperbole seems to be all the rage these days.

"That looks like a bad dude, too. Probably on something."

This is a pretty good example of hyperbole. And that feeling of fear and distrust is at the root of this death.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[skycop 0]

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Yes, when a man dies because of a cop's incompetence there is no do over

Agreed to an extent, but the same would go for a large white guy, in this situation, not following commands in the same manner.

It's actions, these things do not happen in a vacuum.

How many experienced jumpers have you known, or read about who botch their emergency procedures? These are trained people who should react properly, but don't for whatever reason.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[gowlerk 1,926]

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Agreed to an extent, but the same would go for a large white guy, in this situation, not following commands in the same manner.

Ah, you don't know that. And neither do I. But there are reasons to believe that black men attract more negative attention from police, and white society in general than their white peers. The police, and their attitudes are merely a reflection of the culture they are from.

Tulsa is known to be a place with a poor relationship between the black community and the police force. Things may be much better where you work.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[skycop 0]

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Ah, you don't know that. And neither do I.

Ok, let me rephrase that;

I can say, with a high degree of certainty, the same could go for a large white guy, in this situation, not following commands in the same manner.

I stand corrected, I'll never say never.

I've been involved in numerous types of these situations, I can say race was not a factor. In one case the guy ended up dying (not from a gun shot). He was white, and it sucked just as bad to be there. No one wins in these.

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Tulsa is known to be a place with a poor relationship between the black community and the police force.

What was that you were saying about hyperbole?

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Things may be much better where you work.

No, not really.
When things go sideways it sucks for everyone, luckily it doesn't happen as much as the some groups and the media would like you to believe.
The false narratives have already started on this, along with selective editing.
As I stated his hands were not raised after he reached the side of the truck. But the media is showing him walking away with his hands raised, there is no still shot of him at the side of the truck that I've seen.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[jakee 1,259]

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I can say, with a high degree of certainty, the same could go for a large white guy, in this situation, not following commands in the same manner.

Maybe. If he'd been commanded in the first place.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[RonD1120 58]

Why do we even find it necessary to respond to foreigners regarding our police forces? We have a terrible, destructive social situation in our country. I believe it has been manifested from a planned progressive/liberal agenda. IMO, these posters, mostly foreign but some Americans, are part of the enemy's plan. They are the useful idiots of the master puppeteers.

I have many friends from a military and law enforcement background. We all, and I mean all, agree that 1) 52% of the murders are committed by 13% of the population, and 2) since 9/11 the vast majority of terrorist acts are committed by Muslims.

Are those factors reason enough to profile these types and be on edge around them. You better believe it.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[gowlerk 1,926]

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Why do we even find it necessary to respond to foreigners regarding our police forces? We have a terrible, destructive social situation in our country.

In the part of Canada where I live the bottom rung is occupied by a different ethnic group than where you are. First Nation Canadians have long suffered from abusive treatment at the hands of police, and they are over represented in the correctional system. But we no longer tolerate the same level of abuse by the police. Mostly because they have learned to stand up and have leaders that are fighting against it.

They don't say "Black lives matter", they say "Idle no more". As in they will no long sit back idly and take it. Either way, it is the same thing. And like in your country most people support the concept. But there is a also a minority with the same kind of attitude you embrace. Luckily you are merely a small mostly irrelevant fringe group.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[kallend 1,648]

RonD1120

I have many friends from a military and law enforcement background. We all, and I mean all, agree that 1) 52% of the murders are committed by 13% of the population,

Are they equally concerned that 73% of the nation's assets are owned by 10% of the population? Does it occur to them that these facts may be related?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[DJL 232]

I don't know what happened before the video that resulted in multiple squad cars rushing to the scene along with a frickin' helicopter BUT......:::

If cops have their guns pointed at you. Keep the hands up, don't move, don't walk away, and.....

DON'T FUCKING REACH INTO YOUR CAR!!! ESPECIALLY IF YOU'RE BLACK!!!

And no, I'm not trying to justify the 840-1000 police shootings each year, no way.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[aphid 0]

skycop

No one wins in these.

So, one struggles (perhaps) with sleepless nights, emotional trauma, able to attend employer-funded counseling, and some paid leave-of-absence.

The other dies.

Seems fair.

[RonD1120 58]

kallend

***

I have many friends from a military and law enforcement background. We all, and I mean all, agree that 1) 52% of the murders are committed by 13% of the population,

Are they equally concerned that 73% of the nation's assets are owned by 10% of the population? Does it occur to them that these facts may be related?

That would be the government, right. The same government that gives the 52% free stuff. You know like shelter, food, Obamacare and Obamaphone.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[DanG 1]

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The same government that gives the 52% free stuff. You know like shelter, food, Obamacare and Obamaphone.

Or veterans benefits and Social Security.

You know you are part of the 52%, right?

- Dan G

[skycop 0]

You have no idea.

I've said it numerous times, these things don't happen in a vacuum.

Sometimes you are given a shit sandwich, and have to take a huge bite, through no fault of your own many times.

Cops make mistakes, I've also said this over and over.
A pilot is negligent and kills a couple hundred people, the media, and misguided people don't take to the internet and say all pilots are "bad". Medical malpractice kills thousands yearly, yet all doctors aren't indicted.

Good cops sometimes make bad decisions, good people sometimes make bad or stupid decisions as well.

All the facts aren't out in this, nor is the investigation complete. If the DOJ is involved and the shooting is bad, they will prosecute.
In the case of Darren Wilson, his shooting wasn't bad, yet his life was ruined.

Like I said earlier, the tox screen should be interesting, I also read where the individual said something to the effect of "it's gonna blow" during the incident. Then ignored commands to stop and headed back to his vehicle, reaching the drivers side where his hands were down, and he may have been attempting to reach into the vehicle.

If those facts are true, what would you do? Given the events of the last week?

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[skycop 0]

Really?

Even if an IED/VBED is suspected, what would you want as confirmation? The detonation?

With that said, I agree to an extent. There was an incident in Cincinnati in 2001 that triggered riots. The officer was chasing a guy who turned around and grabbed at his waist. It was low light conditions and the officer fired. The suspect was unarmed, he was charged with manslaughter and he was acquitted. IMHO that officer should have been terminated, he wasn't.

It's not that easy.
In Afghanistan the contacts usually aren't within three feet, within 3 seconds.

In South Carolina a trooper panicked and shot a guy for simply reaching into his car. He was found criminally negligent and is in jail, and rightfully so. That incident did occur somewhat in a vacuum, criminal charges resulted.

"Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!"

[kallend 1,648]

skycop

You have no idea.

I've said it numerous times, these things don't happen in a vacuum.

Sometimes you are given a shit sandwich, and have to take a huge bite, through no fault of your own many times.

Cops make mistakes, I've also said this over and over.
A pilot is negligent and kills a couple hundred people, the media, and misguided people don't take to the internet and say all pilots are "bad". Medical malpractice kills thousands yearly, yet all doctors aren't indicted.

Good cops sometimes make bad decisions, good people sometimes make bad or stupid decisions as well.

All the facts aren't out in this, nor is the investigation complete. If the DOJ is involved and the shooting is bad, they will prosecute.
In the case of Darren Wilson, his shooting wasn't bad, yet his life was ruined.

Like I said earlier, the tox screen should be interesting, I also read where the individual said something to the effect of "it's gonna blow" during the incident. Then ignored commands to stop and headed back to his vehicle, reaching the drivers side where his hands were down, and he may have been attempting to reach into the vehicle.

If those facts are true, what would you do? Given the events of the last week?

Pilots who kill people are indeed investigated very thoroughly by an independent body that has no history of cover-ups.

If the same were true of cops, I doubt there would be so much criticism. But the number of times a video "didn't record", or "wasn't turned on", or "was accidentally deleted" (if a camera existed at all) leads to loss of confidence. As do rules that forbid citizens from videoing cops.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[RonD1120 58]

DanG

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The same government that gives the 52% free stuff. You know like shelter, food, Obamacare and Obamaphone.

Or veterans benefits and Social Security.

You know you are part of the 52%, right?

That 52% is the number of murders. It does not apply to me.

Once again, I maintain that veterans benefits and social security are earned.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[aphid 0]

skycop

You have no idea.

I stand corrected;

I'm not employed in Law Enforcement, but friends are.
I have no criminal record or outstanding civil claims.
I'm not American although I visit the Eloy area extensively.
I don't have a weapon - I am Canadian.

However, I do have a penchant for regularly exceeding highway speed signs.

As I am currently struggling with some health issues that physically preclude me from instantly complying to a bellowed demand to "raise your hands and keep them up", or "get on your knees", or "lay face down", I worry how a policeman in your country might react to my disobedience.

I would like to tell the policeman about the infirmity to allay his/her concerns but unfortunately, especially under stress, my med's prevent me from talking above a hoarse whisper.

Mind you, I am plainly Caucasian.

So while I may endure some manhandling, I don't think I will be shot.

And that would be likely considered a legitimate interaction and exchange by the Thin Blue Line.