Cleveland Police Union Calls for Weapons Ban During RNC

[quade 3]

Ought to be interesting to see how people react to this.

Will the NRA side with police or not?

First three paragraphs;

Quote

CLEVELAND — The head of Cleveland's police union called Sunday for the suspension of open-carry gun laws in the city during the Republican National Convention.

Steve Loomis of the Cleveland Police Patrolmen's Association cited the shooting death of three police officers in Baton Rouge, Louisiana, in urging the Ohio's governor, John Kasich, to ban guns for the week.

"This is not an attack on the Second Amendment. This is not an attack on the right to open carry," Loomis told NBC News. "We believe it is a reasonable request to protect the safety of our folks."

Source:
http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/2016-conventions/cleveland-police-union-calls-weapons-ban-during-rnc-n611206

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[wolfriverjoe 1,346]

That's a toughie.

Keep in mind that it's a "right". Like it or not, it's in the BOR and the SC has ruled that it's an individual right.

How would you feel if they suggested suspending first amendment rights in the city for the duration?
Nobody would be allowed to peaceable assemble for protests or make public speeches that were of a "certain tone."

Or how about the 4th? Cops could search anyone and anywhere in the city that they chose for the duration of the convention.

Banning guns in the immediate area of the convention? Fine. But the entire city?

I'd be more comfortable with the cops making a statement about what "carry" and "brandishing" mean, the differences between the two and that anyone brandishing a gun would be viewed as a direct threat.

I understand that it would be a clear "we will shoot you for..." statement. And that there would be a strong chance of an idiot or two being shot.

Again, it's a toughie. Suspending rights because the "cops are afraid" isn't a good precedent to set.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[quade 3]

wolfriverjoe

How would you feel if they suggested suspending first amendment rights in the city for the duration?

Nobody would be allowed to peaceable assemble for protests or make public speeches that were of a "certain tone."

I would feel like you're making a false equivalency. And you are.

To my knowledge, no police officers (not just in recent history but ever) have been killed simply by people using words nor have they ever been harmed in any way by the peaceful assembly of people for protests.

While there have been instances of police being harmed as an escalation of conflict, words and assembly in and of itself poses no immediate threat.

The same can not be said for a gun. Simply the presence of a gun is considered a threat in some situations; for instance, beyond the screening line of an airport or taken into a court of law.

I think this might be one of them too at least within a certain perimeter of the convention center.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[councilman24 36]

quade

***How would you feel if they suggested suspending first amendment rights in the city for the duration?

Nobody would be allowed to peaceable assemble for protests or make public speeches that were of a "certain tone."

I would feel like you're making a false equivalency. And you are.

To my knowledge, no police officers (not just in recent history but ever) have been killed simply by people using words nor have they ever been harmed in any way by the peaceful assembly of people for protests.

While there have been instances of police being harmed as an escalation of conflict, words and assembly in and of itself poses no immediate threat.

The same can not be said for a gun. Simply the presence of a gun is considered a threat in some situations; for instance, beyond the screening line of an airport or taken into a court of law.

I think this might be one of them too at least within a certain perimeter of the convention center.emphasis added

But the request was for 'in the city'. Anybody open carrying isn't the one to worry about.

CRIMINALS do not follow gun laws. No gun law is going to stop someone who wants to murder police and die trying. And yes that legal gun carrying citizen just might help. And mighty get killed for trying.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[wolfriverjoe 1,346]

quade

...The same can not be said for a gun. Simply the presence of a gun is considered a threat in some situations; for instance, beyond the screening line of an airport or taken into a court of law.

I think this might be one of them too at least within a certain perimeter of the convention center.

Well, the mere "presence of a gun" isn't a threat. There are guns in courthouses and airports. It's just prohibited for ordinary civilians (yes, I'm yanking your chain just a bit).

And "within a certain perimeter" is certainly reasonable (that was in my post). Aren't 1stA & 4thA rights suspended there too? Protesters aren't allowed to hold rallies or make speeches within a certain perimeter. Entrants are subject to search.

But the entire city? The whole municipal area?

A bit of overreach IMO.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[muff528 3]

This is the Cleveland Police Patrolman's Assn., not the Cleveland Police Dept. asking for the suspension. .... if that makes a difference.

[Hooknswoop 19]

Quote

I would feel like you're making a false equivalency.

Are you saying that some constitutional rights should be limited easily and others more difficult to limit?

Again, I think open carry is a bad idea.

Derek V

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councilman24

Quote

I think this might be one of them too at least within a certain perimeter of the convention center.

emphasis added

But the request was for 'in the city'.

If you agree to the premise at all, which you clearly seem to, then we're now simply quibbling over what constitutes, "a certain perimeter."

When you consider the recent truck incident in Nice extended for roughly a mile and a half, how far away from the convention center do you think will have to have checkpoints and be staffed with police officers?

It's a tough call.

I'm glad I'm not the chief of police nor the officials who have told him he can't protect his people. He's pretty screwed here if anything happens and the officials, they better pray nothing happens.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[quade 3]

Hooknswoop

Quote

I would feel like you're making a false equivalency.

Are you saying that some constitutional rights should be limited easily and others more difficult to limit?

Again, I think open carry is a bad idea.

Derek V

I'm saying we do, in fact, limit arms in certain locations. I also think it's appropriate. Not that they're "easily limited", but for legitimate reasons.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[billvon 2,406]

>How would you feel if they suggested suspending first amendment rights in the city
>for the duration?

They do. They often confine protesters to a "free speech area" enclosed by chain link fences and watched by police. We could do the same thing here; have a "carry" area where guns are legal, enclosed by concrete walls, watched over by police.

[turtlespeed 212]

wolfriverjoe

That's a toughie.

Keep in mind that it's a "right". Like it or not, it's in the BOR and the SC has ruled that it's an individual right.

How would you feel if they suggested suspending first amendment rights in the city for the duration?
Nobody would be allowed to peaceable assemble for protests or make public speeches that were of a "certain tone."

Or how about the 4th? Cops could search anyone and anywhere in the city that they chose for the duration of the convention.

Banning guns in the immediate area of the convention? Fine. But the entire city?

I'd be more comfortable with the cops making a statement about what "carry" and "brandishing" mean, the differences between the two and that anyone brandishing a gun would be viewed as a direct threat.

I understand that it would be a clear "we will shoot you for..." statement. And that there would be a strong chance of an idiot or two being shot.

Again, it's a toughie. Suspending rights because the "cops are afraid" isn't a good precedent to set.

Yes, yes, making that a gun free zone makes sense.

Under one condition. Ban absolutely all guns.

Police can't carry, security can't carry, no one carries, open, or concealed.

let's make BOTH conventions an experiment in gun banning.

I think the country deserves the experiment.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun