StreetScooby 5 #101 February 13, 2016 Quote No, some people really can't. Yes, we can agree on that. My take/estimate on that is in the single digit percentage.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 388 #102 February 13, 2016 What about tax returns? Medical records? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 145 #103 February 13, 2016 StreetScoobyQuote that is a theory not borne by any historical fact or statistic. Tell that to the unemployed ex-WalMart workers. And there is more to come. Quote http://www.dol.gov/featured/minimum-wage/mythbuster You're quoting an article from the Department of Labor, for this administration. And you expect us to take that seriously? Seriously? feel free oquote your own sources then. My claim was that no minimum wage increase in the USA ever resulted in a negative economic impact. none whatsoever, not ever. I was replying to post that stated 'an opinion' which i rebutted using 'statistics'. shame on me I guess for using real data. wow. no wonder the country is in trouble - I mean, who in their right mind would want to use real data when so many varied emotional opinions would obviously do better? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 388 #104 February 13, 2016 Ok I give up, your reasoning is bullet proof. Raise the minimum wage to $100K a year!!! Whoo hoo, we are all rich, money party, money party! After all there is NO negative economic impact, nada, zilch. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,673 #105 February 13, 2016 StreetScoobyQuote No, some people really can't. Yes, we can agree on that. My take/estimate on that is in the single digit percentage. I suggest that a single digit percentage (maybe even less) can succeed in becoming a theoretical physicist or an NFL quarterback, no matter how hard they try.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,673 #106 February 13, 2016 turtlespeed***>But the fact is, the majority of the time - if you are willing to above and beyond what is >considered average - you will succeed in what you are trying to do. Not for most people, and not most of the time. If you are born in sub-Saharan Africa or rural Pakistan, you can be brilliant and hardworking - and you will likely never succeed in your dream of starting an Internet company. If you are born in the US and have all those opportunities that the US provides - but have an IQ of 80 - you will likely never succeed in your dream of being a scientists. Hard work is necessary for success, but it ensures very little. So you adapt your dream and become successful that way. Oooh, did anyone notice the goalposts moving?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #107 February 13, 2016 kallend******>But the fact is, the majority of the time - if you are willing to above and beyond what is >considered average - you will succeed in what you are trying to do. Not for most people, and not most of the time. If you are born in sub-Saharan Africa or rural Pakistan, you can be brilliant and hardworking - and you will likely never succeed in your dream of starting an Internet company. If you are born in the US and have all those opportunities that the US provides - but have an IQ of 80 - you will likely never succeed in your dream of being a scientists. Hard work is necessary for success, but it ensures very little. So you adapt your dream and become successful that way. Oooh, did anyone notice the goalposts moving? So you could make it as a heavy timber carpenter? You find what you can be good at doing, and excell at that. Pretty common in the sense department.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #108 February 13, 2016 Quote My claim was that no minimum wage increase in the USA ever resulted in a negative economic impact. Are you keeping up with current news? Quote shame on me I guess for using real data. What real data are you referring to?We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #109 February 13, 2016 Quote suggest that a single digit percentage (maybe even less) can't succeed in becoming a theoretical physicist or an NFL quarterback, no matter how hard they try. I'm assuming you meant to say can't, kallend. Part of the process of getting back up and persevering is learning from your mistakes and actually making decisions that fit within your skill set. On top of never stopping when it comes to expanding your skill set.We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #110 February 13, 2016 StreetScoobyQuote suggest that a single digit percentage (maybe even less) can't succeed in becoming a theoretical physicist or an NFL quarterback, no matter how hard they try. I'm assuming you meant to say can't, kallend. Part of the process of getting back up and persevering is learning from your mistakes and actually making decisions that fit within your skill set. On top of never stopping when it comes to expanding your skill set. That would not make sense - yes a small percentage CAN make it as a physicist, just like a small percentage can make it as a doctor. Simply put, make the correct decision and quit making me pay for your bad decisions.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brenthutch 388 #111 February 13, 2016 “If a man is called to be a street sweeper, he should sweep streets even as a Michaelangelo painted, or Beethoven composed music or Shakespeare wrote poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and earth will pause to say, 'Here lived a great street sweeper who did his job well.” My second favorite Republican, MLK Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 1,952 #112 February 13, 2016 Monday we honor a man who changed the world by with the words “I have a dream” and “Free at last.” We continue to remember his words as they still echo that all of us are children of God. Here are just some of Martin Luther King Jr.’s powerful lessons. 1.) Stand up for what you believe in! “There comes a time when silence is betrayal. 2.) Consider others before yourself. “Life’s most persistent and urgent question is, ‘What are you doing for others?’” 3.) Give your best effort in everything you do. You owe it to yourself and the world! “If a man is called to be a street sweeper, he should sweep streets even as a Michaelangelo painted, or Beethoven composed music or Shakespeare wrote poetry. He should sweep streets so well that all the hosts of heaven and earth will pause to say, ‘Here lived a great street sweeper who did his job well.’” 4.) Love is the most powerful force. “Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that.” Thank you brenthutch for bringing that to my attention.Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,673 #113 February 13, 2016 turtlespeed***Quote suggest that a single digit percentage (maybe even less) can't succeed in becoming a theoretical physicist or an NFL quarterback, no matter how hard they try. I'm assuming you meant to say can't, kallend. Part of the process of getting back up and persevering is learning from your mistakes and actually making decisions that fit within your skill set. On top of never stopping when it comes to expanding your skill set. That would not make sense - yes a small percentage CAN make it as a physicist, just like a small percentage can make it as a doctor. Simply put, make the correct decision and quit making me pay for your bad decisions. FACT is, when you wrote... QuoteBut the fact is, the majority of the time - if you are willing to above and beyond what is considered average - you will succeed in what you are trying to do. ...you were writing rubbish, and you now admit it in a backhanded way.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #114 February 14, 2016 kallend******Quote suggest that a single digit percentage (maybe even less) can't succeed in becoming a theoretical physicist or an NFL quarterback, no matter how hard they try. I'm assuming you meant to say can't, kallend. Part of the process of getting back up and persevering is learning from your mistakes and actually making decisions that fit within your skill set. On top of never stopping when it comes to expanding your skill set. That would not make sense - yes a small percentage CAN make it as a physicist, just like a small percentage can make it as a doctor. Simply put, make the correct decision and quit making me pay for your bad decisions. FACT is, when you wrote... QuoteBut the fact is, the majority of the time - if you are willing to above and beyond what is considered average - you will succeed in what you are trying to do. ...you were writing rubbish, and you now admit it in a backhanded way. So, you can't argue that I'm wrong, and you nit-pic the words. You mean nothing.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,673 #115 February 14, 2016 turtlespeed*********Quote suggest that a single digit percentage (maybe even less) can't succeed in becoming a theoretical physicist or an NFL quarterback, no matter how hard they try. I'm assuming you meant to say can't, kallend. Part of the process of getting back up and persevering is learning from your mistakes and actually making decisions that fit within your skill set. On top of never stopping when it comes to expanding your skill set. That would not make sense - yes a small percentage CAN make it as a physicist, just like a small percentage can make it as a doctor. Simply put, make the correct decision and quit making me pay for your bad decisions. FACT is, when you wrote... QuoteBut the fact is, the majority of the time - if you are willing to above and beyond what is considered average - you will succeed in what you are trying to do. ...you were writing rubbish, and you now admit it in a backhanded way. So, you can't argue that I'm wrong, and you nit-pic the words. You mean nothing. QED... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,466 #116 February 14, 2016 > But I could dream of being a opera singer, and work my ass off to make it >happen. It won't. That is why I am a millwright. I can make a decent living of it. Yep. But someone born in sub-Saharan Africa does not have that option. The best they may be able to achieve with their skills is not starving and dying at age 50 of natural causes. That's not because they are lazy takers - it's because a great many people don't have the opportunities that you have had. Likewise someone born with an IQ of 80. Or someone with no arms. Might they be successful at something else? Maybe - but often not, because working hard does not mean that anyone will value that hard work. >I am a high school dropout making a 6 figure salary. That didn't happen cause I > stood back saying I deserve more. It happened cause I stepped up and >showed my bosses how much I can do, and how much money I can save them >by me being able to do repairs they never even imagined rather then buying >new equipment. That's great. And you had school given to you, as well as enough intelligence to figure out how to solve other people's problems. Not everyone has that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,466 #117 February 14, 2016 >Who said anything about being compelled? She should release them in the >spirit of transparency. Ah, so you just wish she would. I have no problem with that; wish away. >If she is who she says she is, I will vote for her. If you can get anyone to believe a whopper like that, you'd make a great presidential candidate! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,466 #118 February 14, 2016 >If you get you're dick knocked in the dirt, you lay there for a minute, catch your >breath, and get the fuck back up. Not if you ain't got no legs. You can try all you like, of course. Not everyone is born in a country like the US, with a working body, a good brain and an upbringing that doesn't royally screw them up. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 145 #119 February 14, 2016 No one is asking for $100K a year minimum wage - but keeping up with inflation might be a reasonable goal. How about $10.50/hour? How about $12? I guess your reasoning is so bulletproof as well right? I mean what you just said.....$100K....sooooooooo 'reasonable', no? try to have a conversation with facts and data, this is what we get I guess. I guess I should set my expectations lower. For the umpteenth time - Show me a source of data that contradicts what I said. I can wait. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 145 #120 February 14, 2016 StreetScoobyQuote My claim was that no minimum wage increase in the USA ever resulted in a negative economic impact. Are you keeping up with current news? Quote shame on me I guess for using real data. What real data are you referring to? Me: Nothing bad happened when minimum wage increased Them: 2500 people lost jobs in LA, Seattle, blah blah blah etc Me: Unemployment is actually going down in those places (using real data) and continues to go down. People lose jobs for lots of reasons. No reason for their numbers was given - just a number. There is no correlation or causal effect from the wage increase to those jobs actually being lost, etc. (Using real sources and real data) Them: silence THAT data....you know, the data that is readily available from almost any source out there with 12 seconds of searching using any modern search engine. https://ycharts.com/indicators/seattle_wa_unemployment_rate https://ycharts.com/indicators/los_angeleslong_beachanaheim_ca_metropolitan_statistical_area_unemployment https://ycharts.com/indicators/washingtonarlingtonalexandria_dcvamdwv_metropolitan_division_wv_unemployment http://useconomy.about.com/od/economicindicators/a/Job-Stats.htm And supporting YOUR side http://www.forbes.com/sites/timworstall/2015/08/20/that-la-minimum-wage-really-is-causing-job-losses-you-know/#3469c4e65c47 Article from last summer stating that there are job losses....HOWEVER, only in a narrow sector as explained by the graph. So if unemployment is going down yet these people lost their jobs, then it is fairly easy to draw a conclusion that they found other employment and only a small sector might have been affected. Which goes to the arguments from turtle and yourself and others that wow, people CAN and DO other jobs and change to make themselves successful...so in fact MY data even supports YOUR theories, even while raising the minimum wage. amazing how data works..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreeece 2 #121 February 14, 2016 turtlespeed Well, then - working rediculously hard seems to be working for me. if it can work for me - It can work for everyone else. . . This is sorta, kinda like the flip-side of Dunning Kruger - instead of overestimating your ability, you're underestimating it and then assuming things can work out just as "easily" for everyone else. Interestingly enough, this underestimation of yourself is also reflected in the following graph illustrating productivity vs compensation: https://spfaust.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/worker-productivity-annual-wage-compensation.png It shows that despite skyrocketing productivity and profit, you are still severely underpaid. All your money is being sucked up by corporate CEOs and the top 1% - most of which never goes back into the economy - that is a problem. Unfortunately this is just a byproduct of globalisation, and there isn't much we can do about it until the rest of the world stops whoring themselves out to U.S corporations.Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreeece 2 #122 February 14, 2016 SkyDekkerPeople should be able to work a job 8 hours a day, 5 days a week and live a regular, normal (lower) middle class life. ...and the first step to that would be for employers to actually give minimum wage workers 40 hours a week - which they are not. In Michigan, there is a financial incentive for businesses to limit the hours of minimum wage employees. If their employees make under $2800 per quarter, they will never qualify for unemployment insurance, thus ultimately reducing the amount the company will have to pay into unemployment - this works out to about 28 hours at 8.25/hr per employee. The way around this would be to find a second job - but that's not good for businesses - so in order to control this, they give their employees sporadic schedules. One day they may be working late night, the next day they may be working in the morning, then one day they may only come in for 3 hours in the afternoon. All this just makes it that much harder to work with other employers when looking for a second job. So to recap: People who need the most hours, get the least. Finding a second job is hardest on those that need it the most. ...and all this promotes deceitful unemployment figures. Politicians will say that we have the lowest unemployment in years, when in reality all we have is more people working less hours.Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 145 #123 February 14, 2016 wow - we agree on something.... And the reason that companies do all these things is because the law allows them to do it. It requires at least some level of regulation and oversight to force companies to pay decent wages, have fewer part time workers and more full-time workers, and to stop shipping their jobs overseas in the name of corporate profits. American (and global) productivity is through the roof for the most part - we are more productive than ever, so trickle down economics is not working either - because not only is that productivity not being reflected in the wages, the wage is not keeping up with inflation either - double whammy. fewer hours - triple whammy. jobs shipped out - quad whammy. And that is often blamed on the worker.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,076 #124 February 14, 2016 Hi Coreece, Quotemore people working less hours Nicely put. Re: 'wow - we agree on something....' Plus 1; amazing. Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #125 February 14, 2016 Quote amazing how data works..... Are you saying that drop in unemployment is due to people getting $15/hour jobs?We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
