If this is your recovery, you can keep it

[kallend 1,649]

brenthutch

This sums it up nicely.

Yes, recovering from the GWB Recession, the worst in three generations, has been a long and slow process. No-one denies that.

BTW your graphic is out of date. Did you get it from Facebook?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,649]

RMK

*** I was against ALL of the bailouts
NO ONE is too big to fail IMO

a serious reply...

The economic bailout of the 2008 financial crisis was not a bailout of big banks and Wall Street. It was an action to bailout and save the financial system in general. Yes, the remedy included saving many large financial institutions (who may have deserved to feel some pain), but there was no way around that. Saving the system had global implications, not just for the US. Yes, you can be too big to fail.

The media have never really addressed and been open with the public as to just how close we came to some really bad outcomes and what those outcomes may have been. This would just be scaremongering of the general public, who don’t really have a grasp of how global financial markets function.

The whole debacle was somewhat of a “perfect storm” financially. There were groups explicitly responsible across the board; not just big banks or Mom & Pops lying to get mortgages. Some of the worst offenders were actually in the middle; decision makers and board members of the largest pensions and insurance companies globally.

Oddly, biggest fuel to the debacle wasn’t really greed. It was ignorance and laziness. Ignorance in the form of decision makers buying instruments they didn’t understand; Laziness in the form of wholly relying on credit ratings instead of real risk assessment and due diligence.

PS: If you think you may not fully understand multi-tranche securitised asset-backed CLOs that include documentation exceeding 500 pages and would take a desk of quant analysts a week to price ... don’t feel bad, this crisis showed that many of the world’s financial professionals didn’t either.

Let us not forget, however, that while many middle class people were losing their jobs and their homes, the CEOs and other officers of the biggest banks, and of AIG, not only kept theirs, but continued to collect huge bonuses.

One can excuse Mom and Pop not fully understanding the fine points of derivatives and tranches, but the professionals make VERY good money for (supposedly) having a handle on these things.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 2,435]

>Let us not forget, however, that while many middle class people were losing
>their jobs and their homes, the CEOs and other officers of the biggest banks,
>and of AIG, not only kept theirs, but continued to collect huge bonuses.

And let us not forget that many middle-class people were making fortunes flipping homes - taking advantage of that bubble - before the bubble burst. Many of these people lost everything when their new $800,000 home became a $400,000 home within the course of a few months. Can't say I feel too sorry for them. Others stopped flipping before the bubble burst, mostly by luck. These people kept their ill-gotten fortunes.

[Bolas 5]

billvon

>Let us not forget, however, that while many middle class people were losing
>their jobs and their homes, the CEOs and other officers of the biggest banks,
>and of AIG, not only kept theirs, but continued to collect huge bonuses.

And let us not forget that many middle-class people were making fortunes flipping homes - taking advantage of that bubble - before the bubble burst. Many of these people lost everything when their new $800,000 home became a $400,000 home within the course of a few months. Can't say I feel too sorry for them. Others stopped flipping before the bubble burst, mostly by luck. These people kept their ill-gotten fortunes.

While we're beating dead horses, let's not forget the government who initially forced lenders to lend to high risk individuals but also shielded lenders from the risk.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[kallend 1,649]

billvon

>Let us not forget, however, that while many middle class people were losing
>their jobs and their homes, the CEOs and other officers of the biggest banks,
>and of AIG, not only kept theirs, but continued to collect huge bonuses.

And let us not forget that many middle-class people were making fortunes flipping homes - taking advantage of that bubble - before the bubble burst. Many of these people lost everything when their new $800,000 home became a $400,000 home within the course of a few months. Can't say I feel too sorry for them. Others stopped flipping before the bubble burst, mostly by luck. These people kept their ill-gotten fortunes.

Maybe in California and Florida. In the midwest, without such a housing bubble, others for no fault of their own whatsoever still lost their homes and jobs.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,649]

Bolas

***>Let us not forget, however, that while many middle class people were losing
>their jobs and their homes, the CEOs and other officers of the biggest banks,
>and of AIG, not only kept theirs, but continued to collect huge bonuses.

And let us not forget that many middle-class people were making fortunes flipping homes - taking advantage of that bubble - before the bubble burst. Many of these people lost everything when their new $800,000 home became a $400,000 home within the course of a few months. Can't say I feel too sorry for them. Others stopped flipping before the bubble burst, mostly by luck. These people kept their ill-gotten fortunes.

While we're beating dead horses, let's not forget the government who initially forced lenders to lend to high risk individuals but also shielded lenders from the risk.

It's hard to assess risk when the ratings agencies were in collusion with the banks and giving high ratings to what turned out to be junk. And then they had the nerve to claim that their bogus ratings were protected by the 1st Amendment

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[headoverheels 291]

billvon

And let us not forget that many middle-class people were making fortunes flipping homes - taking advantage of that bubble - before the bubble burst. Many of these people lost everything when their new $800,000 home became a $400,000 home within the course of a few months. Can't say I feel too sorry for them. Others stopped flipping before the bubble burst, mostly by luck. These people kept their ill-gotten fortunes.

I don't consider such ill-gotten, although it is tainted money ('taint yours, 'taint mine).

[Bolas 5]

kallend

******>Let us not forget, however, that while many middle class people were losing
>their jobs and their homes, the CEOs and other officers of the biggest banks,
>and of AIG, not only kept theirs, but continued to collect huge bonuses.

And let us not forget that many middle-class people were making fortunes flipping homes - taking advantage of that bubble - before the bubble burst. Many of these people lost everything when their new $800,000 home became a $400,000 home within the course of a few months. Can't say I feel too sorry for them. Others stopped flipping before the bubble burst, mostly by luck. These people kept their ill-gotten fortunes.

While we're beating dead horses, let's not forget the government who initially forced lenders to lend to high risk individuals but also shielded lenders from the risk.

It's hard to assess risk when the ratings agencies were in collusion with the banks and giving high ratings to what turned out to be junk. And then they had the nerve to claim that their bogus ratings were protected by the 1st Amendment

Which all boiled back to the fact that the government, through Fannie and Freddie took all the risk from the companies leading to riskier and greedier actions.

Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting
If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh.

[billvon 2,435]

>In the midwest, without such a housing bubble, others for no fault of their own
>whatsoever still lost their homes and jobs.

Yep. And plenty of hardworking, honest bankers lost their jobs and homes as well.

[billvon 2,435]

>I don't consider such ill-gotten

Perhaps not. It was certainly money that was not earned, but rather gamed from a system behaving irrationally. People on both sides made money from such irrational behaviors - and then people on both sides lost money when the inevitable correction occurred.

[kallend 1,649]

billvon

>In the midwest, without such a housing bubble, others for no fault of their own
>whatsoever still lost their homes and jobs.

Yep. And plenty of hardworking, honest bankers lost their jobs and homes as well.

And plenty of conniving unscrupulous execs made large bonuses.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 2,435]

>And plenty of conniving unscrupulous execs made large bonuses.

And plenty of greedy amoral flippers made a fortune.

Yes, we've established that there were bad people on all sides of this, taking advantage of the market to enrich themselves without regard to the effects on others.

[SkyDekker 1,147]

RMK

*** I was against ALL of the bailouts
NO ONE is too big to fail IMO

a serious reply...

The economic bailout of the 2008 financial crisis was not a bailout of big banks and Wall Street. It was an action to bailout and save the financial system in general. Yes, the remedy included saving many large financial institutions (who may have deserved to feel some pain), but there was no way around that. Saving the system had global implications, not just for the US. Yes, you can be too big to fail.

The media have never really addressed and been open with the public as to just how close we came to some really bad outcomes and what those outcomes may have been. This would just be scaremongering of the general public, who don’t really have a grasp of how global financial markets function.

The whole debacle was somewhat of a “perfect storm” financially. There were groups explicitly responsible across the board; not just big banks or Mom & Pops lying to get mortgages. Some of the worst offenders were actually in the middle; decision makers and board members of the largest pensions and insurance companies globally.

Oddly, biggest fuel to the debacle wasn’t really greed. It was ignorance and laziness. Ignorance in the form of decision makers buying instruments they didn’t understand; Laziness in the form of wholly relying on credit ratings instead of real risk assessment and due diligence.

PS: If you think you may not fully understand multi-tranche securitised asset-backed CLOs that include documentation exceeding 500 pages and would take a desk of quant analysts a week to price ... don’t feel bad, this crisis showed that many of the world’s financial professionals didn’t either.
'
And yet many Republicans think that not regulating any of these very investment vehicles, or the market that trades them, is the best solution.