Andy9o8 0 #51 May 5, 2015 QuoteThankfully I'll never work with her. I'm sorry for the lives she will put at risk. Have we established that the requirements you passed on your test would necessarily have resulted in a passing score under strict application of all FDNY test standards? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Driver1 0 #52 May 5, 2015 Andy9o8QuoteThankfully I'll never work with her. I'm sorry for the lives she will put at risk. Have we established that the requirements you passed on your test would necessarily have resulted in a passing score under strict application of all FDNY test standards? We'll have to get the requirements from each FD and check them side-by-side then. I know one dude in the FDNY...There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,678 #53 May 5, 2015 DanGQuote50 pounds is an arbitrary number. Why not 57.6 or 43.17 pounds? WHat is so special about 50 pounds other than it's a nice easy number to remember? Wouldn't be so easy in kilograms. Maybe the standard gear package weighs about 50 lbs? Maybe, maybe not. So why not have the test require a 'standard gear package' instead of some nice integer number that's a multiple of the number of fingers on your hands in an arbitrary and archaic system of units?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
promise5 17 #54 May 5, 2015 I believe I passed a test that is equal to theirs. But again it's about personal integrity also. Take yourself out, instead of demanding that the standards be lower. If people want to sit on the "well unless you take the exact same test" crap they can go ahead. But, I have passed what has been required of the departments I work for without them lower a standard. It was dang hard and I'm proud of what I do!No matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible. Believe me I tried. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,678 #55 May 5, 2015 In pre-war Germany the standard required to work as a scientist was that you had to be a white Aryan male. That didn't work out too well for them.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,150 #56 May 5, 2015 promise5I believe I passed a test that is equal to theirs. But again it's about personal integrity also. Take yourself out, instead of demanding that the standards be lower. If people want to sit on the "well unless you take the exact same test" crap they can go ahead. But, I have passed what has been required of the departments I work for without them lower a standard. It was dang hard and I'm proud of what I do! You believe you did, but you don't know. We have no idea if the test has any actual bearing on the ability to do the job. Most Fire Departments don't test ever again. Sounds like the test is more ritual/hazing than anything performance related. I don't believe in lower test standards for different groups. I further don't believe in random tests that have no bearing on the job being tested for. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
promise5 17 #57 May 5, 2015 Bullcrap!!! Ritual/hazing ??? That's an insult!! What the crap do you think we do play games ??No matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible. Believe me I tried. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Driver1 0 #58 May 5, 2015 kallend In pre-war Germany the standard required to work as a scientist was that you had to be a white Aryan male. That didn't work out too well for them. Did you just Godwin this thread??? There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Driver1 0 #59 May 5, 2015 promise5 Bullcrap!!! Ritual/hazing ??? That's an insult!! What the crap do you think we do play games ?? What? Can't you just cuss like normal? There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #60 May 5, 2015 promise5I believe I passed a test that is equal to theirs. But again it's about personal integrity also. Take yourself out, instead of demanding that the standards be lower. If people want to sit on the "well unless you take the exact same test" crap they can go ahead. But, I have passed what has been required of the departments I work for without them lower a standard. It was dang hard and I'm proud of what I do! My point being: you expressly presumed that she'd be putting others' lives at risk. That is a separate issue from the issue of personal integrity. If it turns out that the test you passed was less stringent than the one she took, does that logically mean that you're putting lives at risk? ETA: I'm not being obtuse about the points you're making, in general, and I realize you feel strongly about the topic. I just wonder if you're being presumptuously harsh in labeling her as putting other lives at risk. To be fair, I'd welcome perspective of other past or present firefighters on that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wayneflorida 0 #61 May 5, 2015 SkyDekker***Obliviously the standard isn't set to high as other wen are more then capable of passing with "flying colors". We continually train and test. The annual medical test for NYFD includes a 5 minute step test. That's it for physical testing. There is an annual physical evaluation, yet those evaluations go pretty much nowhere and firefighters certainly don't get pulled off the job based on those. Hard to describe a test as critical or crucial if it is a one time deal and is never tested for again during their career. Would love to see this firefighter perform this crucial test: http://issuehawk.com/igor/2014/09/20/firefighter-who-attacked-postal-worker-yelled-youre-nothing-but-a-fcking-ngger-is-cleared-of-hate-crime-charges.html#! Dude is 300 pounds of solid fat. He might look like 300 lbs but I think it is just the lighting. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,150 #62 May 5, 2015 promise5Bullcrap!!! Ritual/hazing ??? That's an insult!! What the crap do you think we do play games ?? The Firefighter Games are probable more worthy of this test than the actual job. Like I have said many times before. If this test was so incredibly crucial, it would be repeated once on the job. Clearly for the NYFD physial fitness is not that important for the actual job, since there is no real tangible requirement to maintain it once you have the job. Hence the test is arbitrary and probably kept more as tradition than anything else. And yes most of the times firefighters are playing games, and cooking and getting paid to work out, wash the truck etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #63 May 5, 2015 SkyDekkerIf this test was so incredibly crucial, it would be repeated once on the job. Clearly for the NYFD physial fitness is not that important for the actual job, since there is no real tangible requirement to maintain it once you have the job. unless you are being tongue in cheek, I think you have the logic backwards. you are stating that the test is not a good assessment because they don't repeat it for current staff IMHO - the test reads like something reasonable - the issue I'd take isn't the content of the test, I'd take issue that a good test is not done on a periodic basis ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,150 #64 May 5, 2015 Quoteyou are stating that the test is not a good assessment because they don't repeat it for current staff I am saying that no NYFD firefighter is getting fired due to any physical issue. Hence any physical test cannot be indicative of the ability to do the job. Hence, the test being discussed is likely more ritualistic/hazing than serving any other purpose. NYFD firefighters are apparently doing a good enough job to keep their job without being able to complete this test. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
promise5 17 #65 May 5, 2015 And you know for a fact that different parts of the test at different times are not reviewed and done during training? We continually train and review. Every area is covered. Now as far as if our test is exactly the same, I don't agree. I really don't think that the NYFD have many wild fires and on the other hand I don't deal with underground tunnel fires. We test and train for the area we work and live in. But there is a basic standard we need to meet and that doesn't need to be lowered.No matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible. Believe me I tried. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,410 #66 May 5, 2015 promise5 I really don't think that the NYFD have many wild fires and on the other hand I don't deal with underground tunnel fires. Obama's troops are already digging secret tunnels under Walmarts in TX. AK could be next."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
promise5 17 #67 May 5, 2015 Doubt that. We don't put up with that crap. Texas folded. Lol lolNo matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible. Believe me I tried. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Driver1 0 #68 May 5, 2015 To no one in particular... The New York City Police Department is NYPD The Fire Department of New York City is FDNY Get it right. There will be no addressing the customers as "Bitches", "Morons" or "Retards"! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
promise5 17 #69 May 5, 2015 Well crud! I'm the one that said NYFD. No matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible. Believe me I tried. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,276 #70 May 5, 2015 rehmwa***If this test was so incredibly crucial, it would be repeated once on the job. Clearly for the NYFD physial fitness is not that important for the actual job, since there is no real tangible requirement to maintain it once you have the job. unless you are being tongue in cheek, I think you have the logic backwards. you are stating that the test is not a good assessment because they don't repeat it for current staff IMHO - the test reads like something reasonable - the issue I'd take isn't the content of the test, I'd take issue that a good test is not done on a periodic basis I think the logic is correct, we just lack the necessary information to input to arrive at the correct answer. Are long-time NYFD firefighters dying because they or their colleagues are no longer fit enough?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #71 May 5, 2015 QuoteAre long-time NYFD firefighters dying because they or their colleagues are no longer fit enough? No, that's more of a police issue - the more fat-ass donut-eaters there are who don't have to meet physical standards anymore, the more dark-hued perps get back-shot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #72 May 5, 2015 Andy9o8QuoteAre long-time NYFD firefighters dying because they or their colleagues are no longer fit enough? No, that's more of a police issue - the more fat-ass donut-eaters there are who don't have to meet physical standards anymore, the more dark-hued perps get back-shot. from watching fat people, I think they'd happily back-shoot people of all colors to avoid having to run for any distance crappy fitness is universal ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,150 #73 May 5, 2015 QuoteAnd you know for a fact that different parts of the test at different times are not reviewed and done during training? Doesn't matter if it is reviewed. If not meeting the standard has no influence on whether you keep the job, the review is useless. QuoteBut there is a basic standard we need to meet and that doesn't need to be lowered. A basic standard you need to meet once in your life, never to have to meet it again. Which makes the basic standard useless. When the unions start agreeing to terminate employment of those firefighters who are not able to meet the minimum standard, the standard is basically useless and certainly not critical or crucial. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
promise5 17 #74 May 5, 2015 At least they had passed, unlike the woman in the article that failed.No matter how slowly you say oranges it never sounds like gullible. Believe me I tried. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TriGirl 278 #75 May 5, 2015 jakee I think the logic is correct, we just lack the necessary information to input to arrive at the correct answer. Are long-time NYFD firefighters dying because they or their colleagues are no longer fit enough? I think the initial test is more to determine whether you'll be able to complete the training. If you're already doing the job, you've proven you can physically do the job, therefore (perhaps) this is why continual (annual, semi-annual, whatever) evaluation is not done. Firefighters tend to notice if one of their teammates suddenly can't make it up the stairs during a call.See the upside, and always wear your parachute! -- Christopher Titus Shut Up & Jump! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
