kallend 1,635 #76 January 3, 2015 BillyVance *********The rest of the western world knows that intelligent Americans would like to see some change regarding guns in the US. However, we also, know it will take some time given what you’re working against. One example: we invented the Grand Jury, but saw it didn’t work and disbanded the concept in 1933: http://mic.com/articles/105964/england-has-avoided-eric-garners-and-michael-browns-by-doing-what-the-u-s-won-t?utm_source=huffpost&utm_medium=social We also ended slavery in 1833; US didn’t come around to the idea until 1865 (which even then required an “ass-kickin” from the north). On the other hand guns are so are so cool; http://awkwardfamilyphotos.com/tag/guns/ If you truly believe that Slavery was all the Civil War was about, or even the main driving issue . . . you should maybe go back and read some.He didn't claim that it was. He implied it. See bold and read it again. I did, and nowhere did he claim OR imply that "all" or even "the main issue" was what it was about.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,635 #77 January 3, 2015 normissWeaver. Possibly tactical. Depends on where the pillows and the gun are I think. And the ambien. Hey, (Ambien + alcohol) cures jet lag in a hurry.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #78 January 6, 2015 Here's a shooting in which police released the full video off the cop's body camera in Selma, AL after protesters demanded it. Seems justified to me. Suspect ignored police orders to stop and drop his weapon (a hatchet), along with 2 other officers (both black), but when the suspect finally turned around with hatchet still in hand and came toward the officer with his gun fully drawn and aimed, and was shot. I can't hear the audio but maybe you guys can take a listen. http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2015/01/selma_police_release_full_vide.html#incart_river"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,635 #79 January 6, 2015 BillyVanceHere's a shooting in which police released the full video off the cop's body camera in Selma, AL after protesters demanded it. Seems justified to me. Suspect ignored police orders to stop and drop his weapon (a hatchet), along with 2 other officers (both black), but when the suspect finally turned around with hatchet still in hand and came toward the officer with his gun fully drawn and aimed, and was shot. I can't hear the audio but maybe you guys can take a listen. http://www.al.com/news/index.ssf/2015/01/selma_police_release_full_vide.html#incart_river I don't think anyone questions the fact that many police shootings can be justified on account of a real threat to the cops or to the public. The issue concerns shootings where there appears to be a "shoot first" mentality. Amadou Diallo is an excellent example of this. Guy was getting his ID to show the cops, and was shot 41 times.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #80 January 8, 2015 Ive shown you many time you cant compare the US to other countries when it comes to guns and violence. http://people.duke.edu/~gnsmith/articles/myths.htm "Stiff `gun control' laws work as shown by the low crime rates in England and Japan, while U. S crime rates continue to soar." All criminologists studying the firearms issue reject simple comparisons of violent crime among foreign countries. It is impossible to draw valid conclusions without taking into account differences in each nation's collection of crime data, and their political, cultural, racial, religious, and economic disparities. Such factors are not only hard to compare, they are rarely, if ever, taken into account by "gun control" proponents.9 Only one scholar, attorney David Kopel, has attempted to evaluate the impact of "gun control" on crime in several foreign countries. In his book The Samurai, The Mountie and The Cowboy: Should America adopt the gun controls of other democracies?, named a 1992 Book of the Year by the American Society of Criminology, Kopel examined numerous nations with varying gun laws, and concluded: "Contrary to the claims of the American gun control movement, gun control does not deserve credit for the low crime rates in Britain, Japan, or other nations." He noted that Israel and Switzerland, with more widespread rates of gunownership, have crime rates comparable to or lower than the usual foreign examples. And he stated: "Foreign style gun control is doomed to failure in America. Foreign gun control comes along with searches and seizures, and with many other restrictions on civil liberties too intrusive for America. Foreign gun control...postulates an authoritarian philosophy of government fundamentally at odds with the individualist and egalitarian American ethos."10 America's high crime rates can be attributed to re volving-door justice. In a typical year in the U.S., there are 8.1 million serious crimes like homicide, assault, and burglary. Only 724,000 adults are arrested and fewer still (193,000) are convicted. Less than 150,000 are sentenced to prison, with 36,00 0 serving less than a year (U.S. News and World Report, July 31, 1989). A 1987 National Institute of Justice study found that the average felon released due to prison overcrowding commits upwards of 187 crimes per year, costing society approximately $430, 000. Foreign countries are two to six times more effective in solving crimes and punishing criminals than the U.S. In London, about 20% of reported robberies end in conviction; in New York City, less than 5% result in conviction, and in those cases imprisonment is frequently not imposed. Nonetheless, England annually has twice as many homicides with firearms as it did before adopting its tough laws. Despite tight licensing procedures, the handgun-related robbery rate in Britain rose about 200% duri ng the past dozen years, five times as fast as in the U.S. Part of Japan's low crime rate is explained by the efficiency of its criminal justice system, fewer protections of the right to privacy, and fewer rights for criminal suspects than exist in the United States. Japanese police routinely search citizens at will and twice a year pay "home visits" to citizens' residences. Suspect confession rate is 95% and trial conviction rate is over 99.9%. The Tokyo Bar Association has said that the Japanese police routinely "...engage in torture or illegal treatment. Even in cases where suspects claimed to have been tortured and their bodies bore the physical traces to back their claims, courts have still accepted their confessions." Neither the powers and secrecy of the police nor the docility of defense counsel would be acceptable to most Americans. In addition, the Japanese police understate the amount of crime, particularly covering up the problem of organized crime, in order to appear more efficient an d worthy of the respect the citizens have for the police. Widespread respect for law and order is deeply ingrained in the Japanese citizenry. This cultural trait has been passed along to their descendants in the United States where the murder ratef or Japanese-Americans (who have access to firearms) is similar to that in Japan itself. If gun availability were a factor in crime rates, one would expect European crime rates to be related to firearms availability in those countries, but crime rat es are similar in European countries with high or relatively high gun ownership, such as Switzerland, Israel, and Norway, and in low availability countries like England and Germany. Furthermore, one would expect American violent crime rates to be more sim ilar to European rates in crime where guns are rarely used, such as rape, than in crimes where guns are often used, such as homicide. But the reverse is true: American non-gun violent crime rates exceed those of European countries. 9 Wright, et al ., Under the Gun: Weapons, Crime and Violence in America (N.Y.: Aldine, 1983). 10 Kopel, "The Samurai, The Mountie, and the Cowboy: Should America adopt the gun controls of other democracies?' (Buffalo, N.Y.: Prometheus Books, 1992), 431-32. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,635 #81 January 8, 2015 So ONE self-styled "scholar" thinks that. About as credible as John "Mary Rosh" Lott.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #82 January 8, 2015 QuoteSo ONE self-styled "scholar" thinks that. So your only reply was to point out my reply only cited one person thinks that....Is that what you think....That only one person thinks that? If not then why even reply with that comment? Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,635 #83 January 8, 2015 AnvilbrotherQuoteSo ONE self-styled "scholar" thinks that. So your only reply was to point out my reply only cited one person thinks that....Is that what you think....That only one person thinks that? If not then why even reply with that comment? Just because a self-styled "pro gun rights" advocate claims something is a myth doesn't make it a myth. He presents no credible data.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #84 January 9, 2015 How many sources have you provided that back up your argument...None thats how many. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,635 #85 January 9, 2015 AnvilbrotherHow many sources have you provided that back up your argument...None thats how many. I didn't make the claims. He made the claims, he needs to back them up. He didn't. Another piece of shoddy "scholarship".... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 622 #86 January 12, 2015 Took long enough for Murder charges Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mirage62 0 #87 January 12, 2015 I'm starting to think that whenever there is a police shooting that the STATE (not Fed) should have a automatic review from a different county. I also more and more believe that body video should be a requirement for armed officers.Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #88 January 12, 2015 You do know the man had knives in both hands right, it wasn't just a get on the ground, ooh well hes not doing it fast enough bang bang? Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #89 January 12, 2015 mirage62I'm starting to think that whenever there is a police shooting that the STATE (not Fed) should have a automatic review from a different county. I also more and more believe that body video should be a requirement for armed officers. In Alabama, I believe the ABI (Alabama Bureau of Investigations) reviews police shootings. Not sure exactly. But I do know for sure they investigate complaints against the police"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 622 #90 January 12, 2015 While it has been awhile since I've seen the video, IIRC, he was starting to walk away. Apparently your "bang bang" theory is off though. They were charged with murder after all, that's not just a procedural error or anything. The entire department is under federal oversight for aggressive behavior. Do cops EVER do anything wrong in your eyes? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #91 January 12, 2015 QuoteWhile it has been awhile since I've seen the video, IIRC, he was starting to walk away EXACTLY why I was trying to jog your memory. He wasn't trying to walk away. He had nothing in his hands, was given all kinds of commands, he then obtained 2 knives and took one step forward, then back. He then reached around and was bending over. WHO knows why, possibly finally complying for the police as requested, or reaching for a gun I dont know, they diddnt know. Thats when they shot. QuoteApparently your "bang bang" theory is off though. How is that exactly? QuoteThey were charged with murder after all, that's not just a procedural error or anything. They were "Charged" the next step in the case will be a preliminary hearing where a judge will decide whether the case can proceed. The officers have not been booked or arrested. QuoteThe entire department is under federal oversight for aggressive behavior. WAS under investigation thats over, they are in the settlement and reform process. QuoteDo cops EVER do anything wrong in your eyes? Have I defended the actions of these cops? All I did was make a true statement that the guy had two knives which you replied its been a while, IIRC, etc...... I counted no less than 4 less than lethal devices. They should have bean bagged the fuck out of him until he dropped the knives IMO. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 622 #92 January 12, 2015 OK, so I just watched the video. He was collecting his belongings and was standing up after agreeing to surrender, when he turned his back, they opened fire. This just seconds after telling him they would not shoot him. I didn't notice that he had 30 ft long arm either. IIRC, knives can only cut you if you're withing arm's reach. Your militaristic angry approach to dealing with your fellow citizens is exactly what has elevated this issue to a national platform. Than you for your contribution. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Anvilbrother 0 #93 January 12, 2015 He died with knives in his fucking hands normiss......at the end the cop steps on his hand with a knife in it.....I stand by my statement they should have bean bagged him until he dropped the knives which he never let go of. They shot him before I would have. Wasn't there tho. Your anti cop rage goggles were on when you re watched the video. What elevated this was furgeson. Postes r made from an iPad or iPhone. Spelling and gramhair mistakes guaranteed move along, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #94 January 13, 2015 BillyVance***I'm starting to think that whenever there is a police shooting that the STATE (not Fed) should have a automatic review from a different county. I also more and more believe that body video should be a requirement for armed officers. In Alabama, I believe the ABI (Alabama Bureau of Investigations) reviews police shootings. Not sure exactly. But I do know for sure they investigate complaints against the police Yep . . . all decided by Bobby, Billy Bob, And Joe Bob, who are all three brothers, two with the same mother and two with the same father.I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rick 67 #95 January 13, 2015 The Citizen Advisory Committee in Orange County Florida died through lack of interest After demanding something be done for years the Sheriff set up a citizens panel. After having 1 meeting in 2014 it just sort of faded away. You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southern_Man 0 #96 March 10, 2015 Back to the original topic. New report released in which the number estimate by the feds is doubled, and still too low. Troubling that we don't even know basic statistics about the incidence rate. http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/a-new-estimate-of-killings-by-police-is-way-higher-and-still-too-low/"What if there were no hypothetical questions?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycop 0 #97 March 10, 2015 http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/a-new-estimate-of-killings-by-police-is-way-higher-and-still-too-low/ Clicky But it won't open. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,346 #98 March 10, 2015 Clicky works for me. And it's a rather disturbing article. Our government collects a bazillion statistics on a bazillion things. But not how many people are killed by LE. Why not? Too inconvenient? Too much work? Because it would make them look bad? Because it would lead to restrictions on that same LE?"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skycop 0 #99 March 10, 2015 QuoteIt’s even higher — about 1,240 — if you assume that local law enforcement agencies that don’t report any killings have killed people at the same rate as agencies that do. Well, There goes any objectivity, along with quoting Human Rights Watch. It should be relatively simple one would think. But then again, it is the federal government. "Just 'cause I'm simple, don't mean I'm stewpid!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,346 #100 March 11, 2015 skycopQuoteIt’s even higher — about 1,240 — if you assume that local law enforcement agencies that don’t report any killings have killed people at the same rate as agencies that do. Well, There goes any objectivity, along with quoting Human Rights Watch. It should be relatively simple one would think. But then again, it is the federal government. What do you mean? Are you saying agencies that don't report their numbers have never killed anyone? I'm sure there are agencies (probably most of them) that report "zero" as their number. But that doesn't make the rate zero. And you can use that rate and apply it to agencies that don't report. And where did they quote "Human Rights Watch"? It was HRDAG. Different group. You are rather quick to casually dismiss any reports that are critical of LEO."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
