jakee 1,257 #26 October 28, 2014 QuoteOh it was 100% about the land grabbing. The genocide was not the reason at all. For the US even that wasn't enough. Germany declared war on you.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,346 #27 October 28, 2014 jakeeQuoteOh it was 100% about the land grabbing. The genocide was not the reason at all. For the US even that wasn't enough. Germany declared war on you. Not really. We waited until Japan attacked us at Pearl Harbor. War against Germany was sort of an afterthought."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,129 #28 October 28, 2014 But Germany did declare war on us (after Pearl Harbor) before we declared war on them. Wendy P.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,257 #29 October 28, 2014 wolfriverjoe***QuoteOh it was 100% about the land grabbing. The genocide was not the reason at all. For the US even that wasn't enough. Germany declared war on you. Not really. We waited until Japan attacked us at Pearl Harbor. War against Germany was sort of an afterthought. Follow the thread. He was specifically talking about the European theatre, not the Pacific.Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,346 #30 October 28, 2014 jakee******QuoteOh it was 100% about the land grabbing. The genocide was not the reason at all. For the US even that wasn't enough. Germany declared war on you. Not really. We waited until Japan attacked us at Pearl Harbor. War against Germany was sort of an afterthought. Follow the thread. He was specifically talking about the European theatre, not the Pacific. We probably never would have entered the war if Japan hadn't attacked us. We would have stood by and watched the Nazis take over most of Europe. We spent over 2 years doing just that."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,050 #31 October 29, 2014 Hi joe, QuoteWe probably never would have entered the war if Japan hadn't attacked us. Let me disagree with. However, it is important to understand the thinking in this country in 1940. We were only 22 yrs out of WW I and there was a very strong effort to keep us out of any future conflicts in Europe. There was an 'organization/effort' known as America First or Firsters. They were a rather strong group and caused Roosevelt to campaign in 1940 on a pledge to never send American troops to fight on foreign soil. The American populace was concerned with the Depression, not any war overseas. At the same time, Roosevelt was convinced ( as he had been for a few years ) that a war in Europe was inevitable and that we would have be in it. It just took something like Pearl Harbor to kick the America Firsters to the back burner. Also, Roosevelt knew that we had to support England so that Germany would not invade there. If Germany had taken England, we would not have anyway of mounting an invasion. The logistics would have been insurmountable. Just my thoughts, Jerry Baumchen PS) Some great books on this is the Liberation Trilogy by Rick Atkinson: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rick_Atkinson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,257 #32 October 29, 2014 QuoteWe probably never would have entered the war if Japan hadn't attacked us. We would have stood by and watched the Nazis take over most of Europe. After Pearl Harbour you still weren't at war with Germany until Germany declared war on the US. Which part of that do you disagree with?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,346 #33 October 29, 2014 jakeeQuoteWe probably never would have entered the war if Japan hadn't attacked us. We would have stood by and watched the Nazis take over most of Europe. After Pearl Harbour you still weren't at war with Germany until Germany declared war on the US. Which part of that do you disagree with? I don't really disagree with it. But if Germany hadn't declared war on us first, we would have ended up doing it eventually. My point was (and is) that the US was standing on the sidelines, watching Germany take over Europe and watching Japan take over Asia while doing very little. Jerry B's comment about the isolationists was very correct. There were also some fairly prominent folks who were Nazi sympathizers (if not outright supporter/admirers). Lindbergh was one of the most notable."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
winsor 186 #34 October 29, 2014 wolfriverjoe***QuoteWe probably never would have entered the war if Japan hadn't attacked us. We would have stood by and watched the Nazis take over most of Europe. After Pearl Harbour you still weren't at war with Germany until Germany declared war on the US. Which part of that do you disagree with? I don't really disagree with it. But if Germany hadn't declared war on us first, we would have ended up doing it eventually. My point was (and is) that the US was standing on the sidelines, watching Germany take over Europe and watching Japan take over Asia while doing very little. Jerry B's comment about the isolationists was very correct. There were also some fairly prominent folks who were Nazi sympathizers (if not outright supporter/admirers). Lindbergh was one of the most notable. Joseph P. Kennedy made Lindbergh seem positively indifferent by comparison. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mirage62 0 #35 October 29, 2014 Way off thread but..... America was already in many, many ways supporting England. (Lend/Lease I believe it was called and others) Sooner or later there would have been a another Lusitania (sp?) sinking and that would have been the spark..... I could go into "good wars" WWII - good war cause these dirty Japanese attacked us, "bad war" - all others. Your statement is factually correct, we didn't declare war on Germany till they did. The historical reality is that we would have most likely, but we will never know.Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,406 #36 October 29, 2014 >We would have stood by and watched the Nazis take over most of Europe. I think we would have stood by until German submarines sank enough of our ships. Germany had to break that supply line to have a hope of defeating the UK. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,635 #37 October 29, 2014 mirage62Way off thread but..... America was already in many, many ways supporting England. (Lend/Lease I believe it was called and others) . The Lend-Lease Act was passed March 11, 1941. When Britain MOST needed assistance (July - December 1940) the US sat on the sidelines. The US initially denied high octane aviation fuel to the RAF (they had to get it from refineries in Aruba and Kirkuk), and the neutrality acts made it illegal for Americans to join the RAF (seven brave pilots did this anyway, and risked prosecution on return to the US).... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #38 October 29, 2014 QuoteWhen Britain MOST needed assistance (July - December 1940) the US sat on the sidelines. The UK entered into the Anglo-Polish common defence pacts of 1939 when it was not well prepared to invoke them, and then proceeded to invoke them and declare war on Germany. The Anzacs and Canadians let themselves get sucked down that rabbit hole not of their making; the Americans were considerably less inclined to do so. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mirage62 0 #39 October 29, 2014 Quote When Britain MOST needed assistance (July - December 1940) the US sat on the sidelines. " The Lend-Lease Act: Background: With the outbreak of World War II in September 1939, the United States assumed a neutral stance. As Nazi Germany began winning a long string of victories in Europe, the administration of President Franklin Roosevelt began seeking ways to aid Great Britain while remaining free of the conflict. Initially constrained by the Neutrality Acts which limited arms sales to "cash and carry" purchases by belligerents, Roosevelt declared large amounts of US weapons and ammunition "surplus" and authorized their shipment to Britain in mid-1940 (While not dated mid 1940 would be very close to the time YOU referenced as "Britains MOST needed assistance") He also entered into negotiations with Prime Minister Winston Churchill to secure leases for naval bases and airfields in British possessions across the Caribbean Sea and the Atlantic coast of Canada. These talks ultimately produced the Destroyers for Bases in September 1940. This agreement saw 50 surplus American destroyers transferred to the Royal Navy and Royal Canadian Navy in exchange for rent-free, 99-year leases on various military installations. Though they succeeded in repelling the Germans during the Battle of Britain, the British remained hard-pressed by the enemy on multiple fronts." Like you like to point out to me, Goggle is your friend. While I'm not saying that America saved England, and CERTAINLY England carried the major load, I don't think you can seriously say that your cousins across the ocean didn't help - and just as obviously we help early. I can easily come up with other assistance that America provided England during the time that you claim we ignored you. Really you can do better................. You'd BETTER do a lot better this weekend...your in my plane. Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #40 October 29, 2014 Quoteyour cousins across the ocean Also, although not to belabor it (ok, what the hell), but by 1940 there were a hell of a lot of Americans who were not of English extraction and, national languages or not, did not particularly view themselves as cousins of the UK. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,635 #41 October 30, 2014 mirage62 You'd BETTER do a lot better this weekend...your in my plane. Which plane is yours?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mirage62 0 #42 October 30, 2014 The one the SF comes out of (hint, hint) skinny old fucker Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,635 #43 October 30, 2014 mirage62 The one the SF comes out of (hint, hint) skinny old fucker ... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
