"Crime study: Handguns, not 'assault rifles,' used in most mass shootings"

[rushmc 18]

AND

Quote

Media hype about mass shootings in America has fostered a myth that the killings are on the rise and that an assault weapon ban, expanded background checks and greater attention to the mentally ill will curb a rampaging epidemic, according to an authoritative and exhaustive study by a noted criminologist.

Instead, according to James Alan Fox, author and criminology professor at Northeastern University, mass shootings have remained stagnant over 34 years, averaging 20 a year, and few were committed by the type of berserk psychos portrayed by the media.

“Public discourse is grounded in myth and misunderstanding about the nature of the offense and those who perpetrate it,” he writes in the journal “Homicide Studies.” He added: “Without minimizing the pain and suffering of the hundreds of those who have been victimized in recent attacks, the facts clearly say that there has been no increase in mass shootings and certainly no epidemic.”

The study debunks several proposals aired from President Obama, Vice President Joe Biden and Senate Democrats after the December 2012 Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting aimed at stopping mass killings. While he said any plan is worth trying, he concluded that short of abolishing the Second Amendment, there is little that can be done.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/crime-study-no-rise-in-mass-shootings-despite-media-hype/article/2542118


<bolding is mine>

Now, seeing how the NRA fearmongered as many people as possible into buying guns (according to billvon) and the large increase in hand gun and AR15 ownership, one might come to believe that the number and kind of guns owned has little to do with mass shootings

But, that could just be me

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[sfzombie13 307]

it's not just you. i didn't know they were so common in the us, nor did i know that the first school shooting was in 1764. three children survived when four indians went onto a campus in pa. so much for the assault weapons ban helping reduce anything. i'm pretty sure they didn't have anything better than muzzle loaders and flintlocks then. well, they were indians, they could have used bows as well.

now, the source is wikipedia, but i didn't have time to look further. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States

_________________________________________
Si hoc legere scis nimium eruditionis habes

[champu 1]

rushmc

Now, seeing how the NRA fearmongered as many people as possible into buying guns (according to billvon) and the large increase in hand gun and AR15 ownership, one might come to believe that the number and kind of guns owned has little to do with mass shootings

But, that could just be me

billvon and kallend (and many others here, but specifically them 'cause I know you rag on them a lot about this) haven't expressed an interest in banning assaulty weapons, at least not on this site. I doubt either of them could readily tell you if any given person in government representing them was actively trying to, because they probably don't care, but that's par for the course for most people in America and part of a problem that's bigger than firearms regulations.

[rushmc 18]

champu

***Now, seeing how the NRA fearmongered as many people as possible into buying guns (according to billvon) and the large increase in hand gun and AR15 ownership, one might come to believe that the number and kind of guns owned has little to do with mass shootings

But, that could just be me

billvon and kallend (and many others here, but specifically them 'cause I know you rag on them a lot about this) haven't expressed an interest in banning assaulty weapons, at least not on this site. I doubt either of them could readily tell you if any given person in government representing them was actively trying to, because they probably don't care, but that's par for the course for most people in America and part of a problem that's bigger than firearms regulations.

Bill has not expressed a view to ban that I know of
But he has said the NRA fear-mongered to increase arms sales

kallend says he does not want to ban anything
But get him to express specific actions and it becomes a ban by default
(which is why he will not express his specific fixes anymore)

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 1,648]

rushmc

******Now, seeing how the NRA fearmongered as many people as possible into buying guns (according to billvon) and the large increase in hand gun and AR15 ownership, one might come to believe that the number and kind of guns owned has little to do with mass shootings

But, that could just be me

billvon and kallend (and many others here, but specifically them 'cause I know you rag on them a lot about this) haven't expressed an interest in banning assaulty weapons, at least not on this site. I doubt either of them could readily tell you if any given person in government representing them was actively trying to, because they probably don't care, but that's par for the course for most people in America and part of a problem that's bigger than firearms regulations.

Bill has not expressed a view to ban that I know of
But he has said the NRA fear-mongered to increase arms sales

kallend says he does not want to ban anything
But get him to express specific actions and it becomes a ban by default
(which is why he will not express his specific fixes anymore)

Since you think I want to ban YOU from having a firearm, I take this as your confession that you are either a convicted felon or mentally incompetent.

So which is it?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[CornishChris 5]

Is no one noticing that America has 20 mass shootings a year? 20 for fucks sake! 1 is too many.

Banning guns in America, assault or otherwise, is not going to change the culture of a country that thinks that no increase from 20 mass shootings a year is a good thing. Any real change would have to take place over decades and it seems to an outsider like me that the mentality is too far ingrained in your national conscience to ever really change.

We don't have as many shootings of any type in the UK, but of course we still have some, but we don't have many guns here either. A saturation of guns and a general relaxed mentality towards guns and being armed has to have something to do with the level of gun violence in a country doesn't it?

CJP

Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people

[davjohns 1]

Your general point is well taken. The American culture leaves something to be desired in many areas.

I don't think anyone said 20 was a good thing. Just that the facts do not justify the media claims that things are getting worse.

Comparing the culture of the US to Uk or European cultures is tricky. We've never had a monarchy. We never had to have a Coat of Arms from the King that allowed us to bear arms. Our country was born in revolution against a government that was acting unjustly. It has lead us down different paths. While we get along nicely, we are not the same.

To the OP: this isn't surprising. Myths about guns in the US seem to be more common than facts. The media that jumped on Biden's gun ban proposals seemed to have forgotten why the Clinton ban was allowed to expire. Studies showed that ten years of the Clinton gun ban did not make things better.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[rushmc 18]

kallend

Since you think I want to ban YOU from having a firearm, I take this as your confession that you are either a convicted felon or mentally incompetent.

So which is it?

Actually
From the one time you were man enough to give speicifics, you indicated you thought nearly everyone is at least menatally incompetent or a felon. Not just me. So, except for you and a few of YOUR buddies (because you want to be the decider) no one would be able to own and gun


Hence, your wanted default gun ban

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[Boogers 0]

CornishChris

Is no one noticing that America has 20 mass shootings a year? 20 for fucks sake! 1 is too many.

Note that the definition he uses of a mass shooting is the murder of four or more victims in a single episode. So that's at least 80 people out of a nation of 317 million. Or about one out of every 4 million people.

America also kills 35,000 people per year in traffic accidents, many of which are by drunk drivers - about one out of every 9,000 people.

So you're over 400 times more likely to be killed in a traffic accident than in a mass shooting. Yet, guess which one people fear the most? Go figure...

Report link: http://hsx.sagepub.com/content/18/1/125.full.pdf+html

Quote from "Conclusions":

"Eliminating the risk of mass murder would involve extreme steps that we are unable or unwilling to take—abolishing the Second Amendment, achieving full employment, restoring our sense of community, and rounding up anyone who looks or acts at all suspicious. Mass murder just may be a price we must pay for living in a society where personal freedom is so highly valued."

[davjohns 1]

Not a bad quote.

I will also note that alcohol as a beverage has no utilitarian value...but huge downside and impact. I don't hear anyone talking about restricting it further.

I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet..

But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course.

[Boogers 0]

davjohns

I will also note that alcohol as a beverage has no utilitarian value...but huge downside and impact. I don't hear anyone talking about restricting it further.

It's weird the way only certain things get people riled up. Alcohol, tobacco, obesity and cars kills hundreds of thousands annually, and that doesn't seem to bother anyone at all, to the point of wanting to ban the products involved. But for a few rare mass shootings, those same people are willing to eliminate all gun rights. I don't get it.

[kallend 1,648]

rushmc

***

Since you think I want to ban YOU from having a firearm, I take this as your confession that you are either a convicted felon or mentally incompetent.

So which is it?

Actually
From the one time you were man enough to give speicifics, you indicated you thought nearly everyone is at least menatally incompetent or a felon. Not just me. So, except for you and a few of YOUR buddies (because you want to be the decider) no one would be able to own and gun


Hence, your wanted default gun ban

As usual, a false claim from rushmc with no links to back it up.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[SkyDekker 1,145]

Oh, only 20 mass shootings a year.

For a second I thought the US had a problem with mass shootings...but there are only about 2 a month.

Who cares about those pesky shootings were only 3 people die. Fucking amateurs don't deserve any recognition.

[rushmc 18]

SkyDekker

Oh, only 20 mass shootings a year.

For a second I thought the US had a problem with mass shootings...but there are only about 2 a month.

Who cares about those pesky shootings were only 3 people die. Fucking amateurs don't deserve any recognition.

I did not realize you were that heartless

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[billvon 2,434]

>Alcohol, tobacco, obesity and cars kills hundreds of thousands annually, and that
>doesn't seem to bother anyone at all, to the point of wanting to ban the products involved.

That, of course, is not true at all.

> But for a few rare mass shootings, those same people are willing to eliminate all gun rights.

That, of course, is also not true.

[billvon 2,434]

>But he has said the NRA fear-mongered to increase arms sales

They have. Which is just good business sense; several gun manufacturers contribute to the NRA based on how many guns they sell. "You might get killed unless you have a gun!" sells more guns - and that makes the NRA more money.

[kelpdiver 2]

billvon

>Alcohol, tobacco, obesity and cars kills hundreds of thousands annually, and that
>doesn't seem to bother anyone at all, to the point of wanting to ban the products involved.

That, of course, is not true at all.

> But for a few rare mass shootings, those same people are willing to eliminate all gun rights.

That, of course, is also not true.

Where are the falsehoods? The death counts were correct, and the response is tepid. Few outside of San Francisco propose wars on cars. Soda and junk food are also immune. A few attack alcohol, but are laughed away by the majority. the only one that people attack is tobacco, since smokers now are a distinct minority at ~20%. And the attack seems to be more about taxing them for as much as possible rather than actually banning.

DeFi, Brady Coalition, the VPC have all been pretty clear about their wish to eliminate legal gun ownership.

[grue 1]

CornishChris

Is no one noticing that America has 20 mass shootings a year? 20 for fucks sake! 1 is too many.

Banning guns in America, assault or otherwise, is not going to change the culture of a country that thinks that no increase from 20 mass shootings a year is a good thing. Any real change would have to take place over decades and it seems to an outsider like me that the mentality is too far ingrained in your national conscience to ever really change.

Might have something to do with having to fight for independence from oppression. The UK is a police-run nanny state, and Australia is as well.

MOSTLY similar crime rates in all three countries, but guns are part of American culture because without them the US would still have the Queen on the money. Those guns can allow Americans to have a dramatically higher homicide rate, but personally given the choice between a super politically correct bubble wrapped society of cowards, or a higher murder rate… I'll take the higher murder rate, honestly.

That's not to say we shouldn't try and reduce the complete between-the-ears uselessness that causes people to do this shit, but the guns themselves aren't the problem.

cavete terrae.

[billvon 2,434]

>Where are the falsehoods?

In the US there are over 500 dry counties where sale of alcohol is prohibited; these laws generally pass with popular support. It's silly to claim that no one wants alcohol banned. They do - and they do ban it.

> Soda and junk food are also immune.

Did you miss the NYC ban on large sodas, or the wars that various health groups wage on junk food?

>DeFi, Brady Coalition, the VPC have all been pretty clear about their wish to eliminate
>legal gun ownership.

And all these people are just fine with all the other deaths? I'd like to see the evidence of that.

Lots of people want to regulate stuff. Almost everyone wants to ban drunk driving (which poses restrictions on both driving and drinking.) Many people want to regulate gun purchases - waiting periods, CHL permits, assault weapons bans etc. Many people want to ban smoking almost everywhere except remote tiny areas where smokers could theoretically go to smoke.

VERY few people want to ban any of the above entirely. It's a stupid strawman. Even the Brady campaign, a bunch of extremists if there ever was one, does not want to "eliminate legal gun ownership" - they just want to outlaw handguns.

[kelpdiver 2]

billvon

>Where are the falsehoods?

In the US there are over 500 dry counties where sale of alcohol is prohibited; these laws generally pass with popular support. It's silly to claim that no one wants alcohol banned. They do - and they do ban it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dry_communities_by_U.S._state

Looks like the Mason-Dixon line, but looks unlikely to apply to even 10% of the population. But fair enough.

Quote

> Soda and junk food are also immune.

Did you miss the NYC ban on large sodas, or the wars that various health groups wage on junk food?

apparently. I had no trouble drinking soda when I was in NYC in November.
A decade back, CA started taxing junk food, but that hasn't impacted availability.

your rebuttals remains really really far away from "not true at all." Particularly on the killer cars.

Quote

>DeFi, Brady Coalition, the VPC have all been pretty clear about their wish to eliminate
>legal gun ownership.

And all these people are just fine with all the other deaths? I'd like to see the evidence of that.

Lots of people want to regulate stuff. Almost everyone wants to ban drunk driving (which poses restrictions on both driving and drinking.) Many people want to regulate gun purchases - waiting periods, CHL permits, assault weapons bans etc. Many people want to ban smoking almost everywhere except remote tiny areas where smokers could theoretically go to smoke.

VERY few people want to ban any of the above entirely. It's a stupid strawman. Even the Brady campaign, a bunch of extremists if there ever was one, does not want to "eliminate legal gun ownership" - they just want to outlaw handguns.

Citing the Supremes - a ban of handguns is unconstitutional as it is the most useful form of gun for the protected uses. And Brady formed out of the Coalition to Control (ban) Handguns, but I think it's a reach to say they endorse current laws on long arms, and wouldn't be just as happy to ban them as well.

[kallend 1,648]

kelpdiver

Few outside of San Francisco propose wars on cars.

Cars. Strict regulations about: brakes, steering, crashworthiness, lights, insurance, registration, testing and licensing of drivers, tires, emissions, speed limits, traffic lights, stop signs, pedestrian only zones...

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 18]

kallend

*** Few outside of San Francisco propose wars on cars.

Cars. Strict regulations about: brakes, steering, crashworthiness, lights, insurance, registration, testing and licensing of drivers, tires, emissions, speed limits, traffic lights, stop signs, pedestrian only zones...so now you imply weapons are not regulated???

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 1,648]

rushmc

****** Few outside of San Francisco propose wars on cars.

Cars. Strict regulations about: brakes, steering, crashworthiness, lights, insurance, registration, testing and licensing of drivers, tires, emissions, speed limits, traffic lights, stop signs, pedestrian only zones...so now you imply weapons are not regulated???


Have you registered your guns? Did they pass the annual state inspection?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[rushmc 18]

kallend

********* Few outside of San Francisco propose wars on cars.

Cars. Strict regulations about: brakes, steering, crashworthiness, lights, insurance, registration, testing and licensing of drivers, tires, emissions, speed limits, traffic lights, stop signs, pedestrian only zones...so now you imply weapons are not regulated???


Have you registered your guns? Did they pass the annual state inspection?



Oooooo

Can I play?

Is owning a car a right?

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[kallend 1,648]

rushmc

************ Few outside of San Francisco propose wars on cars.

Cars. Strict regulations about: brakes, steering, crashworthiness, lights, insurance, registration, testing and licensing of drivers, tires, emissions, speed limits, traffic lights, stop signs, pedestrian only zones...so now you imply weapons are not regulated???


Have you registered your guns? Did they pass the annual state inspection?

Quote

Oooooo

Can I play?

Is owning a car a right?

Wow, I've never seen goalposts moved so fast.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.