The Supreme Court, Hobby Lobby, and the ACA

[funjumper101 15]

DaVinci

Quote

Really? My birth control is $80/month!!!

Condoms are less expensive. Your FAVORITE form of BC costs you 80/month.

Why should I be forced to pay for your BC? Why can't you and your sexual partner pay that cost? What other things do you think it would be nice to get others to pay for?

I'd like you to chip in each month so I can have a few beers.... Is that OK to you? How about so I can make a few jumps?

Why should I pay for your skydiving related injury?
Why should I pay for your blood pressure medication?
Why should I pay for the prenatal care for your child? The delivery and post-natal care?
Why should I pay for your injuries when you fall off a ladder? Crashed a motorcycle? Wiped out on a mountain bike? All of these are optional activities that you chose to participate in, or an ailment brought on by bad diet and lack of exercise.

Picking and choosing what medical treatment is covered or not is a very slippery slope.
Birth control presciptions are not always for birth control, as has been written here before. You must be uneducated as to female physiology and medical issues.

As Americans, and skydivers, I would hope that we would be on the side of freedom of choice, not massive restrictions on choice.

[funjumper101 15]

turtlespeed

******I'm not saying BC pills are not what this woman needs, but basing it on "what's better for the patient" does not apply.

So, then, you are FOR the creation of "death panels"?

Don't they already exist as Palin said they did?

Yes, the "death panels" exist and have for as long as there have been for profit medical insurance companies.
They aren't run by the government. That would give US, the voters, some small influence over them via elections. They are run by the indurance companies, hidden behind closed door, with minimal government oversight.

This would be part of the system that the ACA is working to change. More would have been done if politicians weren't wholly owned by corporate interests. D and R, that is the key problem.

[turtlespeed 212]

funjumper101

Why should I pay for your skydiving related injury?
Why should I pay for your blood pressure medication?
Why should I pay for the prenatal care for your child? The delivery and post-natal care?
Why should I pay for your injuries when you fall off a ladder? Crashed a motorcycle? Wiped out on a mountain bike? All of these are optional activities that you chose to participate in, or an ailment brought on by bad diet and lack of exercise.

You Shouldn't.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[chutem 0]

turtlespeed

***Why should I pay for your skydiving related injury?
Why should I pay for your blood pressure medication?
Why should I pay for the prenatal care for your child? The delivery and post-natal care?
Why should I pay for your injuries when you fall off a ladder? Crashed a motorcycle? Wiped out on a mountain bike? All of these are optional activities that you chose to participate in, or an ailment brought on by bad diet and lack of exercise.

You Shouldn't.

+1

[chutem 0]

Quote

Picking and choosing what medical treatment is covered or not is a very slippery slope.
Birth control presciptions are not always for birth control, as has been written here before. You must be uneducated as to female physiology and medical issues.

As Americans, and skydivers, I would hope that we would be on the side of freedom of choice, not massive restrictions on choice.

By this statement we can assume you support ACA covering Boob jobs, tummy tucks, and liposuction?

[LyraM45 0]

DaVinci

Quote

Really? My birth control is $80/month!!!

Condoms are less expensive. Your FAVORITE form of BC costs you 80/month.

Why should I be forced to pay for your BC? Why can't you and your sexual partner pay that cost? What other things do you think it would be nice to get others to pay for?

I'd like you to chip in each month so I can have a few beers.... Is that OK to you? How about so I can make a few jumps?

omfg...this is the second time I've been over this. Lets go over this again as I already did upthread: My birth control is a medical necessity! There is a favorite because I pick the one that has the least amount of side effects (some bc pills were absolutely devastating to me with the side effects, and if it were up to me I wouldn't be on it at all). There is no choice. I've been on birth control almost since I started my period and it was causing me to miss school days. I would LOVE to use condoms and have that regulate my period. Chemical free without the side effects? That would be AWESOME!!!! But sadly, that is not an option for me.

So, if your beers were a medical necessity, I would be happy to chip in for them. Need antibiotics ever? Glad I can chip in for that medical necessity too.

"My FAVORITE bc." Jebus, you guys have to be kidding me!!!

Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :)

[LyraM45 0]

DaVinci

Quote

uh, it appears you missed [an unnecessary, imo] detail where she discussed her medical need for this particular form of BC. It wasn't just for convenience.

You are assuming that no other options existed to handle her medical condition.
.

You obviously don't know much about issues surrounding women with menstrual issues - bc its the least expensive and easiest way to tweak the hormones needed to regulate the problems that arise from this kind of thing.

So again, if you believe this shouldn't be at all covered under insurance plans or under the ACA-- think about this again next time you're in dire need of antibiotics. Glad your medical necessity is deemed worthy but mine is not.

Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :)

[DrewEckhardt 0]

LyraM45

omfg...this is the second time I've been over this. Lets go over this again as I already did upthread: My birth control is a medical necessity!

Only if you're working as a prostitute where your vocation requires having sex. Otherwise non-procreative sex is just an optional recreational pursuit like skydiving.

We don't expect the government to pay for jumping out of airplanes and shouldn't expect it to pay for jumping between the sheets.

Quote

There is a favorite because I pick the one that has the least amount of side effects (some bc pills were absolutely devastating to me with the side effects, and if it were up to me I wouldn't be on it at all).

Abstinence has fewer side effects than hormones and costs less.

[Stumpy 256]

DrewEckhardt

***
omfg...this is the second time I've been over this. Lets go over this again as I already did upthread: My birth control is a medical necessity!

Only if you're working as a prostitute where your vocation requires having sex. Otherwise non-procreative sex is just an optional recreational pursuit like skydiving.

We don't expect the government to pay for jumping out of airplanes and shouldn't expect it to pay for jumping between the sheets.

Quote

There is a favorite because I pick the one that has the least amount of side effects (some bc pills were absolutely devastating to me with the side effects, and if it were up to me I wouldn't be on it at all).

Abstinence has fewer side effects than hormones and costs less.

Seriously - read her original post.

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[champu 1]

The point is that there are indications for the prescription of oral contraceptive drugs besides, "desire for child-free sex."

The options if you want to prevent covering birth control if you disagree with doing so for whatever reason are to a) don't cover the meds outright and tell people who would use the drug to control abnormal menstrual issues, "too bad, so sad." or b) get the insurance companies more intimately involved between doctor and patient so they can be sure of the reason for the prescription and deny accordingly.

As an aside, I'm assuming people who are against covering prescribed birth control are against coverage for any form of prescribed pain medication (including anesthetic drugs administered during a procedure.) on the grounds that they're optional.

[turtlespeed 212]

champu

The point is that there are indications for the prescription of oral contraceptive drugs besides, "desire for child-free sex."

The options if you want to prevent covering birth control if you disagree with doing so for whatever reason are to a) don't cover the meds outright and tell people who would use the drug to control abnormal menstrual issues, "too bad, so sad." or b) get the insurance companies more intimately involved between doctor and patient so they can be sure of the reason for the prescription and deny accordingly.

As an aside, I'm assuming people who are against covering prescribed birth control are against coverage for any form of prescribed pain medication (including anesthetic drugs administered during a procedure.) on the grounds that they're optional.

I have health insurance.

I went to the er recently.

I was prescribed antibiotics and pain killers.

I paid for them out of pocket.

Everyone else can do the same.

OR - they are or can be covered by medicaid.

Medically necessary BC Pills can be covered by the patient.

Just like I covered my 80 dollars worth of prescriptions.

I didn't ask anyone to pitch in for mine.

I don't want anyone to.

I don't steal from people.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[champu 1]

turtlespeed

***The point is that there are indications for the prescription of oral contraceptive drugs besides, "desire for child-free sex."

The options if you want to prevent covering birth control if you disagree with doing so for whatever reason are to a) don't cover the meds outright and tell people who would use the drug to control abnormal menstrual issues, "too bad, so sad." or b) get the insurance companies more intimately involved between doctor and patient so they can be sure of the reason for the prescription and deny accordingly.

As an aside, I'm assuming people who are against covering prescribed birth control are against coverage for any form of prescribed pain medication (including anesthetic drugs administered during a procedure.) on the grounds that they're optional.

I have health insurance. I went to the er recently. I was prescribed antibiotics and pain killers. I paid for them out of pocket. Everyone else can do the same. OR - they are or can be covered by medicaid. Medically necessary BC Pills can be covered by the patient. Just like I covered my 80 dollars worth of prescriptions. I didn't ask anyone to pitch in for mine. I don't want anyone to. I don't steal from people.

The argument that all coverage of prescription medication by heath insurance plans is stealing from people is orthogonal to the argument that employers have a right to demand plans free of coverage for particular things they deem immoral under the pretense that it's because they are not medically necessary.

[turtlespeed 212]

champu

******The point is that there are indications for the prescription of oral contraceptive drugs besides, "desire for child-free sex."

The options if you want to prevent covering birth control if you disagree with doing so for whatever reason are to a) don't cover the meds outright and tell people who would use the drug to control abnormal menstrual issues, "too bad, so sad." or b) get the insurance companies more intimately involved between doctor and patient so they can be sure of the reason for the prescription and deny accordingly.

As an aside, I'm assuming people who are against covering prescribed birth control are against coverage for any form of prescribed pain medication (including anesthetic drugs administered during a procedure.) on the grounds that they're optional.

I have health insurance. I went to the er recently. I was prescribed antibiotics and pain killers. I paid for them out of pocket. Everyone else can do the same. OR - they are or can be covered by medicaid. Medically necessary BC Pills can be covered by the patient. Just like I covered my 80 dollars worth of prescriptions. I didn't ask anyone to pitch in for mine. I don't want anyone to. I don't steal from people.

The argument that all coverage of prescription medication by heath insurance plans is stealing from people is orthogonal to the argument that employers have a right to demand plans free of coverage for particular things they deem immoral under the pretense that it's because they are not medically necessary.

Go own your own company, have someone demand something you don't believe in - then come back and have a real opiniom.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[quade 3]

turtlespeed

Go own your own company, have someone demand something you don't believe in - then come back and have a real opiniom.

The employer's "beliefs" are no more and no less important than the "beliefs" of the employees. Further, in fact, they are irrelevant to the discussion as has been shown several times. Heath care is simply a part of compensation, like minimum wage. The employer doesn't get to tell the employee how to spend the compensation.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[turtlespeed 212]

quade

***Go own your own company, have someone demand something you don't believe in - then come back and have a real opiniom.

The employer's "beliefs" are no more and no less important than the "beliefs" of the employees. Further, in fact, they are irrelevant to the discussion as has been shown several times. Heath care is simply a part of compensation, like minimum wage. The employer doesn't get to tell the employee how to spend the compensation.

If I don't want to cover BC pills as part of the coverage I provide . . . its my choice - they can work somewhere else -

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[quade 3]

turtle speed

...its my choice...

No. It's not. Not by any legal standard you can name.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[turtlespeed 212]

quade

***...its my choice...

No. It's not. Not by any legal standard you can name.

I should have said, "
SHOULD be my choice!"

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[quade 3]

turtlespeed

******...its my choice...

No. It's not. Not by any legal standard you can name.
I should have said, "SHOULD be my choice!"

And what would give you the right to dictate what forms of birth control your employees use? How on earth do you believe it "should" be your right to do that? People want government out of their business, what the hell gives employers the right to dictate something that personal?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[rushmc 18]

quade

***Go own your own company, have someone demand something you don't believe in - then come back and have a real opiniom.

The employer's "beliefs" are no more and no less important than the "beliefs" of the employees. Further, in fact, they are irrelevant to the discussion as has been shown several times. Heath care is simply a part of compensation, like minimum wage. The employer doesn't get to tell the employee how to spend the compensation.

Correct
Just as the employees do not get to TELL the employer what compensation is required

they can stay, or leave. They have a choice

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

quade

*********...its my choice...

No. It's not. Not by any legal standard you can name.
I should have said, "SHOULD be my choice!"

And what would give you the right to dictate what forms of birth control your employees use? How on earth do you believe it "should" be your right to do that? People want government out of their business, what the hell gives employers the right to dictate something that personal?

Nice twist
The employee can spend their own money on any BC they wish
They just should not be able to tell the employer what BC they want provided

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[LyraM45 0]

Quote

I have health insurance.

I went to the er recently.

I was prescribed antibiotics and pain killers.

I paid for them out of pocket.

Everyone else can do the same.

OR - they are or can be covered by medicaid.

Medically necessary BC Pills can be covered by the patient.

Just like I covered my 80 dollars worth of prescriptions.

I didn't ask anyone to pitch in for mine.

I don't want anyone to.

I don't steal from people.Unimpressed

so because you don't have an insurance plan that pays well for your rx needs, you think everybody should have the same? There shouldn't be plans out there that offer different levels of rx covereage-- some better, some worse, you get what you pay for?

Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :)

[LyraM45 0]

DrewEckhardt

***
omfg...this is the second time I've been over this. Lets go over this again as I already did upthread: My birth control is a medical necessity!

Only if you're working as a prostitute where your vocation requires having sex. Otherwise non-procreative sex is just an optional recreational pursuit like skydiving.

We don't expect the government to pay for jumping out of airplanes and shouldn't expect it to pay for jumping between the sheets.

Quote

There is a favorite because I pick the one that has the least amount of side effects (some bc pills were absolutely devastating to me with the side effects, and if it were up to me I wouldn't be on it at all).

Abstinence has fewer side effects than hormones and costs less.

Please go see my original post. Saying abstinence would be better for me is just patronizing because guess what-- I would LOVE.... like, LOVE LOVE LOVE to not be on birth control. If it was as simple as divorcing my husband and not having sex for the rest of my life, or having sex and just using condoms.... welp, I'd be all for it. But had you read my posts, you would know this is not an option.

My point, now three times said, is that there are millions of women like me. We are plagued with this lengthy condition that is guaranteed to kick you in the ovaries every 3 weeks- something none of us want and we seek relief from through the form of hormones that come in birth control. Yet quite a few of you on here want to treat every case of a woman needing birth control like some whore who gets around, and/or refuses to use non hormonal forms of birth control, and doesn't deserve to be treated like any other patient needing an rx for a medical problem.

I really wonder how many of you who are adamantly opposed to birth control as a covered rx no matter what the case is also opposed to viagra being covered? Is ED a medical condition? Why should I have to pay for your sexlife, right? Better question-- I wonder if Hobby Lobby covers it?

Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :)

[LyraM45 0]

For what it's worth in response to the original post-- I guess I feel like employers should offer whatever they want. If I need bc coverage for my medical needs, then I can go apply to the next shop down the road if their coverage is better. That is a private sector issue. But for the people saying it shouldn't be a part of the ACA, that I disagree with. That is a nonsecular federal issue. If your argument is that "well, I don't want to pay for somebody's sexlife," then you can start applying that to everything, IE: "I don't want to be paying for somebody's antibiotics, muscle relaxers, pain pills, seizure medicine, etc." Where do you draw the line?


BTW, for all you people having a cow about your money being spent to cover hormonal forms of bc-- you do realize tax dollars are already going towards that stuff right? I can buy condoms and bc with my pre tax FSA money tomorrow if I wanted to.

Apologies for the spelling (and grammar).... I got a B.S, not a B.A. :)

[rushmc 18]

LyraM45

For what it's worth in response to the original post-- I guess I feel like employers should offer whatever they want. If I need bc coverage for my medical needs, then I can go apply to the next shop down the road if their coverage is better. That is a private sector issue. But for the people saying it shouldn't be a part of the ACA, that I disagree with. That is a nonsecular federal issue. If your argument is that "well, I don't want to pay for somebody's sexlife," then you can start applying that to everything, IE: "I don't want to be paying for somebody's antibiotics, muscle relaxers, pain pills, seizure medicine, etc." Where do you draw the line?


BTW, for all you people having a cow about your money being spent to cover hormonal forms of bc-- you do realize tax dollars are already going towards that stuff right? I can buy condoms and bc with my pre tax FSA money tomorrow if I wanted to.

Actually
Hobby Lobby is objecting to the obortion inducing drugs
Not the preventitive drugs

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[normiss 622]

Dammit, I never realized that because my insurance covers a certain item that I MUST use that form specifically.

I need a mammogram, some Jimmy caps, another camera up my ass, some STD screening, some skydiving coverage, a bullet proof vest, AND Sundays off.

I'm clearly not spending enough of OUR money.

You don't get to tell others what they can and can't do with their lives nor bodies. Good luck trying. Your head is going to explode. No, that's not covered.

I can't believe you guys are STILL arguing over this bullshit.