Vietnam General Vo Nguyen Giap Dies at 102

[melch 0]

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Your goal was to make Ike and the US look bad...FAIL

Quiet an analytical leap there and completely wrong...you fail.

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I think he was just stating a historical fact without any motive to make the US look bad.

+1

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Where are you coming from with this useless non sequitur? Do you think it would have been a good idea to drop nuclear bombs on Vietnam?

No, it would have been a terrible idea. My comment was more of a 'Did you know...?' than anything pointed.

[kelpdiver 2]

mpohl

It doesn't take much to win against Americans, never did.

Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan...each and every time they go home like a beaten dog with its tail between its legs. Works every time.

Sad thing is that they create a lot of death and carnage along the way. Nothing else.

though it's obvious this is some trolling, I think you hurt your claim invoking Iraq.

Iran spent most of the 80s fighting Iraq to a statemate, and they live on the border. Just a few years later the US sent its forces halfway around the globe and bombed Iraq into submission in 100 days, followed by a cute 100 hours of ground invasion, leading to a surrender. The only reason it ended then was a fear of another Vietnam. 10 years later, that fear was erased (9/11) and the US made quick work of taking the entire country.

for nation v nation fighting, no one matches the US. China can try to come close by sacrificing millions of soldiers.

Colonialism, otoh, died by the end of WW2. No one has been success with occupation.

[mpohl 1]

So, what's different in Iraq before and after?

Care to elaborate! Other than: "Wow, we have killed a hundred-thousand civilians, including women and children.", "Bombed countless wedding parties into oblivion."

WHAT IS BETTER NOW???????

For you, me. Or the average Iraqi? Anything?
Is your personal life now enriched? More meaningful?

kelpdiver

***
It doesn't take much to win against Americans, never did.

Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan...each and every time they go home like a beaten dog with its tail between its legs. Works every time.

Sad thing is that they create a lot of death and carnage along the way. Nothing else.

though it's obvious this is some trolling, I think you hurt your claim invoking Iraq.

Iran spent most of the 80s fighting Iraq to a statemate, and they live on the border. Just a few years later the US sent its forces halfway around the globe and bombed Iraq into submission in 100 days, followed by a cute 100 hours of ground invasion, leading to a surrender. The only reason it ended then was a fear of another Vietnam. 10 years later, that fear was erased (9/11) and the US made quick work of taking the entire country.

for nation v nation fighting, no one matches the US. China can try to come close by sacrificing millions of soldiers.

Colonialism, otoh, died by the end of WW2. No one has been success with occupation.

[OHCHUTE 0]

Seems dumb to wage war with low wage worker potential. Shirts now made in Vietnam. Bomb low wage workers, you've got to be kidding.

The reason there will never be wars like this again is that since low wage workers are in such high demand, Wall Street can only hope to keep them alive.

[kelpdiver 2]

mpohl

So, what's different in Iraq before and after?

Care to elaborate! Other than: "Wow, we have killed a hundred-thousand civilians, including women and children.", "Bombed countless wedding parties into oblivion."

WHAT IS BETTER NOW???????

I'm sorry, it appears you're attempting to change the question. Before it was about winning against America in a war. Your new notes here seem to agree that they completed failed to achieve that. And the hundred thousand dead is much greater than the several thousand American soldiers killed, so even if we counted the occupation phase 'they' didn't come out ahead.

[turtlespeed 212]

kelpdiver

***
So, what's different in Iraq before and after?

Care to elaborate! Other than: "Wow, we have killed a hundred-thousand civilians, including women and children.", "Bombed countless wedding parties into oblivion."

WHAT IS BETTER NOW???????

I'm sorry, it appears you're attempting to change the question. Before it was about winning against America in a war. Your new notes here seem to agree that they completed failed to achieve that. And the hundred thousand dead is much greater than the several thousand American soldiers killed, so even if we counted the occupation phase 'they' didn't come out ahead.

Actually it looks a lot more like he is ruled by his emotions and is unable to let a significant amount of rage go, hence painting his posts and keeping him from responding calmly.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[airdvr 200]

My apologies. I confused your posts with the ramblings of mpol.

Please don't dent the planet.

Destinations by Roxanne

[mpohl 1]

American armchair warriors! Just pathetic.

Hope you and your family are next in the killing. Maybe a good mall assault will do. We will just count it as a small dent in our "coming out" ahead.

kelpdiver

[...] And the hundred thousand dead is much greater than the several thousand American soldiers killed, so even if we counted the occupation phase 'they' didn't come out ahead.

[rickjump1 0]

masterblaster72

***
Your goal was to make Ike and the US look bad...FAIL.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=9FnO3igOkOk#t=47

I think he was just stating a historical fact without any motive to make the US look bad. Where are you coming from with this useless non sequitur? Do you think it would have been a good idea to drop nuclear bombs on Vietnam? China first.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[billvon 2,470]

>Hope you and your family are next in the killing.

I have zero tolerance for going after someone's family. Your one warning.

[masterblaster72 0]

OHCHUTE

Seems dumb to wage war with low wage worker potential. Shirts now made in Vietnam. Bomb low wage workers, you've got to be kidding.

The reason there will never be wars like this again is that since low wage workers are in such high demand, Wall Street can only hope to keep them alive.

That's the second jab you've taken at Vietnam, in addition to the "piece of crap country" comment earlier. I have been to Vietnam, it is a great country with a lot of promise for the future, offering far more than "low wage worker potential." In a couple of decades time it will be much farther along than it is now.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[kelpdiver 2]

turtlespeed

Actually it looks a lot more like he is ruled by his emotions and is unable to let a significant amount of rage go, hence painting his posts and keeping him from responding calmly.

definitely some sort of irrational rage.

Not sure why it was necessary to introduce anti americanism into the thread anyway. Though Giap was an opposing general, it's possible to acknowledge his accomplishments objectively. It's much more likely that he was great than three major powers all sucked.

[SkyDekker 1,150]

kelpdiver

***
Actually it looks a lot more like he is ruled by his emotions and is unable to let a significant amount of rage go, hence painting his posts and keeping him from responding calmly.

definitely some sort of irrational rage.

Not sure why it was necessary to introduce anti americanism into the thread anyway. Though Giap was an opposing general, it's possible to acknowledge his accomplishments objectively. It's much more likely that he was great than three major powers all sucked.

+1

[masterblaster72 0]

SkyDekker

******
Actually it looks a lot more like he is ruled by his emotions and is unable to let a significant amount of rage go, hence painting his posts and keeping him from responding calmly.

definitely some sort of irrational rage.

Not sure why it was necessary to introduce anti americanism into the thread anyway. Though Giap was an opposing general, it's possible to acknowledge his accomplishments objectively. It's much more likely that he was great than three major powers all sucked.

+1

+2

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[melch 0]

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Not sure why it was necessary to introduce anti americanism into the thread anyway. Though Giap was an opposing general, it's possible to acknowledge his accomplishments objectively. It's much more likely that he was great than three major powers all sucked.

While Giap was a brilliant tactician in most regards and I value him as a military mind more so that Westmoreland, Giap continuously failed to instill faith at higher echelons of North Vietnamese leadership. It's been a few years since I wrote a thesis paper on Giap but he was almost removed as the leader of the NVA following Tet '68. Wait a minute...Tet you say? But Tet was disastrous for the Americans. It was, on a political level because US leaders both civilian and military had spent an enormous amount of effort convincing the American public that victory was near and then BAM, NVA launched a major offensive throughout major population centers country wide. How did they do this if they were on the brink of defeat? American public support wained heavily. However, the NVA lost tactically sustaining an estimated 20-30k casualties crippling the ability of the 304, 306, 308 (3 of the most elite light infantry units in the world at the time) to conduct follow operations. Giap was seen as a failure by his superiors for inability to achieve the NVA objectives. Clearly he stayed the HNIC for a while and ultimately succeed due to numerous factors as the war waged on into the 70s.

Still a great military mind and a successful one for the Vietnamese.

[melch 0]

masterblaster72

*********
Actually it looks a lot more like he is ruled by his emotions and is unable to let a significant amount of rage go, hence painting his posts and keeping him from responding calmly.

definitely some sort of irrational rage.

Not sure why it was necessary to introduce anti americanism into the thread anyway. Though Giap was an opposing general, it's possible to acknowledge his accomplishments objectively. It's much more likely that he was great than three major powers all sucked.

+1

+2

+5

[OHCHUTE 0]

masterblaster72

***Seems dumb to wage war with low wage worker potential. Shirts now made in Vietnam. Bomb low wage workers, you've got to be kidding.

The reason there will never be wars like this again is that since low wage workers are in such high demand, Wall Street can only hope to keep them alive.

That's the second jab you've taken at Vietnam, in addition to the "piece of crap country" comment earlier. I have been to Vietnam, it is a great country with a lot of promise for the future, offering far more than "low wage worker potential." In a couple of decades time it will be much farther along than it is now.

I don't recall the first jab about V-Nam, but suggesting it is dumb to bomb low wage workers is not a jab. I love buying cheap shirts made in Vietnam. Hoorah for cheap labor.

So tell me about the high technology they're producing. Yes I'm aware China is outsourcing to Vietnam much like what
Japan did using China which incidentally gave China the idea they'd become the manufacturer of the world. If it's so good there, move there.

[masterblaster72 0]

melch

While Giap was a brilliant tactician in most regards and I value him as a military mind more so that Westmoreland, Giap continuously failed to instill faith at higher echelons of North Vietnamese leadership. It's been a few years since I wrote a thesis paper on Giap but he was almost removed as the leader of the NVA following Tet '68. Wait a minute...Tet you say? But Tet was disastrous for the Americans. It was, on a political level because US leaders both civilian and military had spent an enormous amount of effort convincing the American public that victory was near and then BAM, NVA launched a major offensive throughout major population centers country wide. How did they do this if they were on the brink of defeat? American public support wained heavily. However, the NVA lost tactically sustaining an estimated 20-30k casualties crippling the ability of the 304, 306, 308 (3 of the most elite light infantry units in the world at the time) to conduct follow operations. Giap was seen as a failure by his superiors for inability to achieve the NVA objectives. Clearly he stayed the HNIC for a while and ultimately succeed due to numerous factors as the war waged on into the 70s.

Still a great military mind and a successful one for the Vietnamese.

Interesting commentary. However from his obituary on BBC I read this, which suggests that he had little to do with the planning or execution of the Tet Offensive:

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Giap has long been credited with launching the hugely significant Tet offensive, but recent research suggests that he may in fact have been against this push - and he was visiting the Hungarian capital, Budapest, at the time of the campaign.

That he was sidelined by the new folks in power after 1975 reminds me of the fact that Rome eventually shunned Scipio Africanus following his decisive defeat of Hannibal at Zama.

Be humble, ask questions, listen, learn, follow the golden rule, talk when necessary, and know when to shut the fuck up.

[kelpdiver 2]

masterblaster72

That he was sidelined by the new folks in power after 1975 reminds me of the fact that Rome eventually shunned Scipio Africanus following his decisive defeat of Hannibal at Zama.

MacArthur came to mind for me. Some generals don't mix well with politics, others do.