Why I hate 'Liberal' and 'Conservative'.

[yoink 321]

It's pathetic. Recently I've noticed an increasing trend to use 'Liberal' or 'Conservative' as a sort of summary that somehow encompasses everything about a person. Not just here but in society as a whole... It's used as a slur. An insult to wave off the validity of someone's opinions when they differ from you own. "Your opinion on cell biology is invalid because you voted for Obama'... "
While this trend seems to be on the increase all over the world, it's extremely noticeable in the US and it depresses me. It's deliberate ignorance and intellectually dishonest.


I've been lucky enough to live all over the world. My life is a rich accumulation of information, encounters, history and events which forms the opinions that I've developed.
I'm considered an expert in my field and have taken time and spent effort to further my knowledge about all facets of things I'm interested in (sometimes even things I'm not interested in!) and based on all of that information I make my judgements on specific issues - I can be conservative on some items and liberal on others. I'm a thinking human being capable of complex beliefs - as is everybody else. We're not just one thing or the other.

But none of that matters when you internally decide that I'm 'Conservative' or 'Liberal'. You're taking rudeness to a new level by ignoring any of my experiences; disregarding them as worthless by relating any discussion to a simple black or white political stance.
I'm more than that. So are you.

If you disagree with someone be polite enough to listen to them and if you want to, form a counter argument. But do it based on the topic at hand. Don't limit your own understanding and education by assuming the fundamental root of the disagreement is based on two meaningless words. Do me the courtesy of that, and I'll do the same for you.

[shropshire 0]

Great post and BTW I agree.

Almost constant generalisation and the failure of some folks to be able to distinguish between issues is laughable (at best).

"If you are wrong (i.e you don't agree with ME) on this subject .... then you MUST be wrong on any other subject" -

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Gravitymaster 0]

Who did you vote for in the last election?

[Andy9o8 0]

Gravitymaster

Who did you vote for in the last election?

QED.

[rehmwa 2]

Andy9o8

***Who did you vote for in the last election?

QED.

just like a liberal to use old acronyms



to the OP - strangely enough, the 'libertarians' on the site tend to agree with you as they don't like being pigeonholed into the two (or four) definitions that are generally used to apply the worst stereotypes associated with either term.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[shropshire 0]

Is the use of Latin a Liberal tendency? We should set up a multi-Million £ research into this

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[rehmwa 2]

shropshire

Is the use of Latin a Liberal tendency? We should set up a multi-Million £ research into this

no no...get the government to fund it.

that makes it 'free'

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[shropshire 0]

ooo good point

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[yoink 321]

rehmwa

to the OP - strangely enough, the 'libertarians' on the site tend to agree with you as they don't like being pigeonholed into the two (or four) definitions that are generally used to apply the worst stereotypes associated with either term.

I would hope everyone agrees with me, regardless of political beliefs. I hate being stereotyped into some simplistic definition. I imagine most people do.

Believing that, I make conscious effort to avoid doing it myself.

[aphid 0]

While I agree 100% with your sentiment...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2w1g-idt-8U

[NorrinRadd 0]

Totally agree. Granted, there are some people who define themselves in this manner, either by name or deed. But most folks I have come across fall within the category of 'complicated'. That is to say, their views cannot be easily labelled.

Why drive myself crazy trying to be normal, when I am already at crazy?

[champu 1]

yoink

You're taking rudeness to a new level by ignoring any of my experiences; disregarding them as worthless by relating any discussion to a simple black or white political stance.

The problem is made worse because the terms actually don't reduce the argument to anything black and white as they are ill-defined. There's not much you can do except try and enjoy the silly misadventures.

[JerryBaumchen 1,084]

Hi Andy,

Quote

Gravitymaster wrote:
.

Who did you vote for in the last election?

QED.

Perfect.

JerryBaumchen

[JerryBaumchen 1,084]

Hi yoink,

Quote

If you disagree with someone be polite enough to listen to them and if you want to, form a counter argument.

I could not agree more.

The problem IMO is when someone posts something and then someone else labels them as either a (L) or a (C).

It reminds of many years ago; my son was about 16 and in high school and he mentioned that another classmate was queer. I told him to never call anyone that because he simply did not if it was true or not.

And I know that I have made mistakes on this forum in this regard; so I am not lilly-white on this issue.

JerryBaumchen

[RonD1120 58]

Good point. Some of my personal favorite alternatives:

Brethren and Accusers of the Brethren

Us and Them

Allies and Enemies

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Gravitymaster 0]

How about Atheist vs Christian?
Don't those threads just frost you?

[RonD1120 58]

Gravitymaster

How about Atheist vs Christian?
Don't those threads just frost you?

No, not any more. In the beginning I was angered by the disrespect but now I find them amusing. Greater is He that is within me then he that is in world, as the Scripture states. I hold the winning ticket.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[Gravitymaster 0]

RonD1120

***How about Atheist vs Christian?
Don't those threads just frost you?

No, not any more. In the beginning I was angered by the disrespect but now I find them amusing. Greater is He that is within me then he that is in world, as the Scripture states. I hold the winning ticket.

Yeah, well, I think those who don't like the stereotyping of Libtards and RWC's (I still don't know what that means) might want to expand their thinking a little as quite a few have been polarized on other topics such as religion, guns etc.

[RonD1120 58]

Gravitymaster

******How about Atheist vs Christian?
Don't those threads just frost you?

No, not any more. In the beginning I was angered by the disrespect but now I find them amusing. Greater is He that is within me then he that is in world, as the Scripture states. I hold the winning ticket.

Yeah, well, I think those who don't like the stereotyping of Libtards and RWC's (I still don't know what that means) might want to expand their thinking a little as quite a few have been polarized on other topics such as religion, guns etc.

Amen.

In psychology there is a diagnostic term, projection. Basically, it means that an individual is not capable of accepting personal responsibility for his emotions, social status, survivability, etc., and projects the cause of hisr circumstance outward and blames a person(s), society, etc. In other words, they are not able to live life on life's term.

At that is how BHO got elected president of the United States, twice.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.

[grimmie 177]

BHO got elected twice because McCain picked a dunce for a running mate and people were sick of GWB and the GOP, and Mitt Romney didn't have a game plan, flip flopped and looked pretty much clueless.

Carry on...

[chemist 0]

you sound pretty liberal to me

[champu 1]

Gravitymaster

Yeah, well, I think those who don't like the stereotyping of Libtards and RWC's (I still don't know what that means) might want to expand their thinking a little as quite a few have been polarized on other topics such as religion, guns etc.

Based on the comparisons you're making, I think you're missing the point of the complaints about the "libtards" and "RWC" (right-wing conservative) language.

Being polarized on individual issues of religion, gun control, etc. is one thing. Opinions and assholes, as they say. But being polarized on "liberal vs. conservative" doesn't even make sense because that's not an issue. It's a random collection of stances on assorted issues that people make up in their head about what the person they're arguing with thinks.

It's not "black and white" it's "color A and color B" and the two people yelling at each other aren't even talking about the same two colors.

[ibx 2]

Quote

In psychology there is a diagnostic term, projection. Basically, it means that an individual is not capable of accepting personal responsibility for his emotions, social status, survivability, etc., and projects the cause of hisr circumstance outward and blames a person(s), society, etc. In other words, they are not able to live life on life's term.

This is really ironic coming from somebody who beat addiction with the help of a higher power...

[Gravitymaster 0]

champu

***Yeah, well, I think those who don't like the stereotyping of Libtards and RWC's (I still don't know what that means) might want to expand their thinking a little as quite a few have been polarized on other topics such as religion, guns etc.

Based on the comparisons you're making, I think you're missing the point of the complaints about the "libtards" and "RWC" (right-wing conservative) language.

Being polarized on individual issues of religion, gun control, etc. is one thing. Opinions and assholes, as they say. But being polarized on "liberal vs. conservative" doesn't even make sense because that's not an issue. It's a random collection of stances on assorted issues that people make up in their head about what the person they're arguing with thinks.

It's not "black and white" it's "color A and color B" and the two people yelling at each other aren't even talking about the same two colors.

I think you are missing the undertone of all Republicans are pro-gun, all Republicans are religious zealots, all Republicans are (fill in blank).

[RonD1120 58]

ibx

Quote

In psychology there is a diagnostic term, projection. Basically, it means that an individual is not capable of accepting personal responsibility for his emotions, social status, survivability, etc., and projects the cause of hisr circumstance outward and blames a person(s), society, etc. In other words, they are not able to live life on life's term.

This is really ironic coming from somebody who beat addiction with the help of a higher power...

Not so, I accepted personal responsibility then sought help. I stopped blaming my parents, my wife, my boss and the asshole Vietnam War protesters. I learned how to live life on life's terms.

Look for the shiny things of God revealed by the Holy Spirit. They only last for an instant but it is a Holy Instant. Let your soul absorb them.