Former NSA contractor Snowden leaves Hong Kong for Moscow

[quade 3]

Actually, there is a remarkable amount of information about Snowden out there when you consider that just a couple of weeks ago he was a complete nobody.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Andy9o8 0]

lawrocket

What bothers me is that Snowden has become the story instead of the shit that the NSA is doing. Snowden is like watching a miniseries. Where is the plot going to go.

Snowden has hijacked his own thread. The conversation has gone from outrage over federal spying on its citizens to this contractor who is Breaking Bad.

Yeah, and, CNN, for example, is playing right into it. You know how when something's going on CNN makes it their story of the day, all day, practically to the exclusion of all other news? They're doing that today: all Snowden, all day.

Anything about NSA abuses? Mmmmm....... no.

[lawrocket 3]

quade

And you don't think that is part of the game being played by the Administration?

Absolutely. The attention on Snowden means less - or zero - attention on the Admin. That makes sound politics. "What we're doing is not the issue. The issue is the snitch."

The Russians and Chinese are certainly giving the finger to the Admin. Kerry looks like a boob. The President looks incompetent. I'm not liking this one bit...

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[turtlespeed 212]

lawrocket

***And you don't think that is part of the game being played by the Administration?

Absolutely. The attention on Snowden means less - or zero - attention on the Admin. That makes sound politics. "What we're doing is not the issue. The issue is the snitch."

The Russians and Chinese are certainly giving the finger to the Admin. Kerry looks like a boob. The President looks incompetent. I'm not liking this one bit...

>>>>Kerry looks like a boob.
Always has, hasn't he?

>>>>The President looks incompetent.
Always has, hasn't he?

>>>>I'm not liking this one bit...
No change in my opinion there.
Never have liked it one bit.

Its disgraceful, and embarrassing.
I wish I could be more proud of my country.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[DanG 1]

Quote

I wish I could be more proud of my country.

When Michele Obama said something similar a bunch of people jumped in her shit. Were you one of them?

- Dan G

[turtlespeed 212]

DanG

Quote

I wish I could be more proud of my country.

When Michele Obama said something similar a bunch of people jumped in her shit. Were you one of them?

She said for the first time in her life she was proud.

I have pride in my country. Always have. Just not as much as I did before BHO (and his cronies) continues to make a laughing stock of this nation.

I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama
BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun

[mr2mk1g 10]

turtlespeed

before BHO (and his cronies) continues to make a laughing stock of this nation.

I make no comment on either Obama's policies or Bush's... but you realise that internationally there was a hell of a lot more laughing going on under the last guy, right? Especially when he got elected a second time, I mean, the world did a collective "seriously America?!?".

Like I say, no comment on either guy from me, just an observation the world-wide zeitgeist.

[champu 1]

quade

Actually, there is a remarkable amount of information about Snowden out there when you consider that just a couple of weeks ago he was a complete nobody.

Indeed, such as not actually having a Masters degree from the Univeristy of Liverpool.

My opinion is that he's a tinkering type who's gathered a decent bit of computer know how and has taken courses here and there but has never been interested enough in anything to follow a program of study. (I knew plenty of people like that in high school, several work IT jobs at big name companies and do just fine for themselves)

Over time he's developed an inferiority complex and convinced himself that being overlooked is everyone else's fault. So, he's happy to become a useful idiot and a pawn in international politics so he can get his 15 minutes of fame even if it means handing over information about things that have nothing to do with him or whistleblowing like currency only at an abysmal exchange rate. I doubt his success or failure at evading US authorities will have had anything to do with his expertise, education, or knowledge of game theory.

But people can go ahead and shake your their Pom-poms. (edited to clarify this last bit)

[pchapman 261]

Andy9o8

No matter which party they're in, everyone in US governance has Shrunken Weenie Syndrome.

But what's the answer? I don't know.

Threaten to start bombing and invading? Well, the targets are too big for that. When Snowdon was in Hong Kong, should the US have promised to send Chinese dissidents back, on the principle that all criminals, political included, should be sent home to stand trial?

Trade sanctions? It would be no good to the US with China, who knows what it would be like with Russia, and it would mean spirited to the world with the likes of Ecuador.

Anything other than straightforward legal attempts at extradition etc. might make things worse for the US's image??

[livendive 8]

mr2mk1g

***before BHO (and his cronies) continues to make a laughing stock of this nation.

I make no comment on either Obama's policies or Bush's... but you realise that internationally there was a hell of a lot more laughing going on under the last guy, right? Especially when he got elected a second time, I mean, the world did a collective "seriously America?!?".
.
It wasn't just internationally. Approximately half of us agreed with that sentiment.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[Andy9o8 0]

livendive

******before BHO (and his cronies) continues to make a laughing stock of this nation.

I make no comment on either Obama's policies or Bush's... but you realise that internationally there was a hell of a lot more laughing going on under the last guy, right? Especially when he got elected a second time, I mean, the world did a collective "seriously America?!?".
.
It wasn't just internationally. Approximately half of us agreed with that sentiment.

According to Chad, slightly more than half. But they hanged him, so word didn't get out in time.

[Kennedy 0]

Andy9o8

*********before BHO (and his cronies) continues to make a laughing stock of this nation.

I make no comment on either Obama's policies or Bush's... but you realise that internationally there was a hell of a lot more laughing going on under the last guy, right? Especially when he got elected a second time, I mean, the world did a collective "seriously America?!?".
.
It wasn't just internationally. Approximately half of us agreed with that sentiment.

According to Chad, slightly more than half. But they hanged him, so word didn't get out in time.

If you don't like the system (electoral college), work to get it changed. Don't take it out on the guy who won.

witty subliminal message
Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards.
1*

[Andy9o8 0]

I thought it was a good one-liner, so bite me.

[lawrocket 3]

quade

Actually, there is a remarkable amount of information about Snowden out there when you considesr that just a couple of iweeks ago he was a complete nobody.

I've been skeptical of some of the conspiracy type things. But I'll consider them. And some of this Snowden stuff is looking pretty weird now. Quade commented how much info was coming out. Now, suddenly, it's gone. Not so much as a leak (understandably. Word's probably out that any leak of anything will result in life imprisonment). But perhaps the press is keeping a lid on things due to request from the admin. Won't be the first time.

My wife is hotter than your wife.

[rickjump1 0]

pchapman

***No matter which party they're in, everyone in US governance has Shrunken Weenie Syndrome.

But what's the answer? I don't know.

Threaten to start bombing and invading? Well, the targets are too big for that. When Snowdon was in Hong Kong, should the US have promised to send Chinese dissidents back, on the principle that all criminals, political included, should be sent home to stand trial?

Trade sanctions? It would be no good to the US with China, who knows what it would be like with Russia, and it would mean spirited to the world with the likes of Ecuador.

Anything other than straightforward legal attempts at extradition etc. might make things worse for the US's image?? The world laughs when the "most powerful man in the free world" is stopped in his tracks. Can you blame them? This is the guy who told Putin to, "wait until my re-election, etc...." The world laughs at us, and we deserve it. Snowden will end up in a can of tuna with Jimmy Hoffa. Short of physically pulling every gigabyte out of his brain, they can never trust anything out of his mouth. Besides, we don't do that sort of thing; right?

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[melch 0]

As far as NSA using Prism and other programs...research US Codes, specifically Title 10, 18, 28, 32, 50. These dictate where and how (to some degree) US intelligence agencies (Mil Intel, NSA, CIA, FBI) can collect information and on whom. While the alphabet soups agencies often operate in the gray I think Snowden's claim that 4th and 5th Amendment rights were violated is a bit of a stretch. Researching the Prism program we can see that the primary purpose is source generation for phone numbers already flagged and simply following how deep the rabbit hole goes and who we find along the way. The issue I have is not a cast net dragged through SMS/cellular data looking for key words, phrases, flagged phone numbers used to develop linked diagrams of possible threats but the stoarge of the data. I would say with some confidence the NSA isnt collecting your dirty photos, sexting, and whatever else you may be offended or embarrassed if someone else found out. In truth it has no effect on day to day life and the majority of people are not in positions to be blackmailed the J. Edgar way someone referenced earlier.

Prism doesnt scare me or bother me...you want to lose sleep over cyber attacks/warfare between the world powers do some research on the STUXNET virus (which is now an open source code available for anyone to manipulate) and get back to me.

As far as Snowden...the guy is a douche canoe. Clearly someone with some self esteem issues that needed 15 minutes of fame. I gaurantee that at some point he signed a non-disclosure agreement while he was getting his security clearances which clearly outlines that disclosure of secret material can be punished by fines, jail time, and capital punishment. If you felt so strongly against what your workplace was doing, resign, write congressman, or go to the US Attorney's office and report constitutional violations before you run off to public media. Selfishness, pure selfishness.

Why he felt the need to throw away a 200+k annual salary in order to kick the bear in the teeth and then run like hell to escape the wrath baffles me. The US seeking to prosecute Snowden within every inch of the law allowed to them for violating a contract that he knowingly signed is by no means excessive in my book.

I read some comments about mistreatment of Bradley Manning. I laugh at you. Kid did the exact same thing by violating a nondisclosure agreement he signed and he got caught and burned. Being forced to spend time in solitary confinement without appropriate clothing because he had been placed (admittedly probably unecessarily) on suicide watch is hardley on the same level as physical beatings, water boarding, or sleep deprivation techniques.

Why people continue to believe there should be no consequences for their actions is beyond me. I hope Equador denies his asylum and he spends a good amount of time in the Moscow airport. Too bad Kerry doesn't have the sand or rapport to put pressure on Ecuador to deny Snowden's request or on the Russians to return him.

[FastRodriguez 0]

So far this uneducated, low-self steem, douche canoe has managed to outsmart the CIA & a few other agencies, made the Obama administration look like a bunch of headless chickens running in circles, escaped the US with a bunch of sensible information, got the russians, the chinese, the ecuatorias, the Cuban, the Venezuelans and the icelanders to play along with him and he is out of the tentacles of the us diplomacy.
He will be zipping beers on the sun, sitting pretty on the bunch of million dollars he is going to make selling his story rights and whatever information he brought along with him.
You might not like him but not admiting than he is a lot smarter than a lot of the people who is trying to get him back to the states is kinda diluted.

"I don´t stop when I am tired. I stop when I am done"

[rickjump1 0]

FastRodriguez

So far this uneducated, low-self steem, douche canoe has managed to outsmart the CIA & a few other agencies, made the Obama administration look like a bunch of headless chickens running in circles, escaped the US with a bunch of sensible information, got the russians, the chinese, the ecuatorias, the Cuban, the Venezuelans and the icelanders to play along with him and he is out of the tentacles of the us diplomacy.
He will be zipping beers on the sun, sitting pretty on the bunch of million dollars he is going to make selling his story rights and whatever information he brought along with him.
You might not like him but not admiting than he is a lot smarter than a lot of the people who is trying to get him back to the states is kinda diluted.

You must watch a lot of American spy movies with happy endings. Our American hero would probably be safer (but colder) in Russia than anywhere else, but the Russians may not think he's worth keeping. Regardless, he will always be waiting for that knock on the door.

Do your part for global warming: ban beans and hold all popcorn farts.

[quade 3]

He's safer where no government knows where he is.

This isn't exactly James Bond stuff to pull off.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[melch 0]

I'm confused as to why you think he has outsmarted anyone?

While he may not posses formal education he is a very intelligent individual with a specific set of skills or he would have never been recruited by the CIA or NSA. It doesn't take a lot of common sense to get out of dodge when you break a non disclosure agreement with the US Government. I honestly think he went to Hong Kong hoping the Chinese would accept him with open arms. However, Hong Kong officials being permitted a level of autonomy in matters of law by Beijing after reaquistion from Great Britain, urged Snowden to move on. So on to Moscow we go where he has met with a series of international lawyers specializing in international laws and extradition paid for by founder of Wikileaks. If youre wondering why he is stuck in the airport its because visiting Russia requires a decent amount of paperwork that has to be approved by the Russian embasy before you can step foot in the motherland (At least for American Passport holders, almost made Olympic tickets not worth the effort). Although he has made himself less than immediately accessable he isnt exactly outsmarting anyone. He isn't doing this on his own like some Hollywood movie one man against the government.

The US is currently trying to explore publicly acceptable avenues of diplomacy to avoid pissing off the int community more than it has after its programs were leaked. Oddly it's funny that the programs are condemned when their countries are trying to work the same kind of systems against us or your own country for that matter (if you don't believe that then you are naive). Anyway I digress, Snowden will always have a red flag attached to his name and he may disappear from the news in a few months after he makes his way to Ecuador but he won't disappear from the US radar. He is simply in the safety zone provided by media attention and public opinion right now (terrible PR if some misfortunate accident were to happen right now). Living in fear of being being monitored and eventual capture won't exactly be zipping beers on the sun.

[kallend 1,623]

melch

As far as NSA using Prism and other programs...research US Codes, specifically Title 10, 18, 28, 32, 50. These dictate where and how (to some degree) US intelligence agencies (Mil Intel, NSA, CIA, FBI) can collect information and on whom. While the alphabet soups agencies often operate in the gray I think Snowden's claim that 4th and 5th Amendment rights were violated is a bit of a stretch. Researching the Prism program we can see that the primary purpose is source generation for phone numbers already flagged and simply following how deep the rabbit hole goes and who we find along the way. The issue I have is not a cast net dragged through SMS/cellular data looking for key words, phrases, flagged phone numbers used to develop linked diagrams of possible threats but the stoarge of the data. I would say with some confidence the NSA isnt collecting your dirty photos, sexting, and whatever else you may be offended or embarrassed if someone else found out. In truth it has no effect on day to day life and the majority of people are not in positions to be blackmailed the J. Edgar way someone referenced earlier.

And of course, NO government agency EVER overstepped the bounds of its authority. Ever.

Want to buy a bridge, cheap?

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[FastRodriguez 0]

Well, I guess only time will tell what happens to him but Im pretty sure he will be alright.
Im almost sure that Ecuador will accept him and that the US governmet wont be able to do much other than scream and throw a tantrum. And you know what? Im happy
I cant comprehend why the hell you think it is ok for your government ( or ANY) government to SPY on people. I dont care how they do it or what reasons you may think they have. Everyone, and I dont care if they are american, spanish, russian or samoan, have a right to their privacy.
I am just a random dude and dont really have nothing to hide from anyone. If the nsa would look into my laptop they will find a bunch of school notes, movies, music, skydiving videos and pictures of me and my friends getting drunk, but that is not the point. If anyone wants to have my phone number, bank information or take a look at my pics they can either ask nicely or get a court order. Any other way is unacceptable.
If your government had any real intentions of fighting terrorism they wouldnt do stupid shit like arming & financing the sirian "rebels" or the taliban in Afganistan before.
Im sick and tired of the US government using the "terrorism" excuse to do whatever they feel, whenever they feel with total disregard for other people´s rights.


Edited to correct some grammar and spelling mistakes.

"I don´t stop when I am tired. I stop when I am done"

[FastRodriguez 0]

Why would he be safer in Russia?

He could go to Cuba and sleep wth Mulatas until he is spent. Everyone knows what happened last time the CIA tried to invade Cuba.

"I don´t stop when I am tired. I stop when I am done"

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

Im sick and tired of the US government using the "terrorism" excuse to do whatever they feel, whenever they feel with total disregard from other people´s rights.

It's just The Boogeyman Of The Day by another name. The US has always had to have a boogeyman - a common enemy to rally the suckers, er, people, around, and to justify (a) violations of its own citizens' constitutional rights and (b) military interference in other nations' affairs, all in the name of national security, because candidly admitting it was actually imperialism was gauche.

Before terrorism, it was Communism on a large scale. Also some smaller scales, such as evil Libya and evil Iran. Before that it was Fascism during the war, but only because of Pearl Harbor. Before that it was, yep, Communism on a lesser scale, and before that it was "anarchism". That pretty much takes us back to the turn of the 20th Century.

Point being: it's really nothing all that new, or recent. Just more of "meet the new boss, same as the old boss."

[quade 3]

"We have always been at war with EastAsia."

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver