wayneflorida 0 #1 February 8, 2013 I counted about thirty holes in the truck. Piss poor shooting considering the women weren't shooting back and weren't killed (Thankfully). $$$$$$$$ http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2013/02/ex-cop-manhunt-newspaper-delivery-women-shot.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1969912 0 #2 February 8, 2013 Those cops should be fired and put on trial. "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #3 February 8, 2013 Very tense time to be a LAPD cop. One is dead, another in the hospital, and the daughter of a retired cop is dead along with her fiance, all due to the ex-cop gone rogue with revenge on his mind. "Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BartsDaddy 4 #4 February 8, 2013 Quote Very tense time to be a LAPD cop. One is dead, another in the hospital, and the daughter of a retired cop is dead along with her fiance, all due to the ex-cop gone rogue with revenge on his mind. Yes it is very tense times for them. But it does not allow them to open fire on anyvehicle just because it is a close match to the one the suspect was last reported driving. And this is not the only wrong vehicle they shot up. They also shot up a black one nearby there. And yes those cops should be prosecuted. Whatever happened to verifieng your target. Handguns are only used to fight your way to a good rifle Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,351 #5 February 8, 2013 Quote Very tense time to be a LAPD cop. One is dead, another in the hospital, and the daughter of a retired cop is dead along with her fiance, all due to the ex-cop gone rogue with revenge on his mind. Very tense time for anyone driving a blue pickup in LA too. The cops sound like they are in a "Shoot first and ask questions later" mode. Piss poor shooting. How many shots fired? And they didn't even kill anyone? Not that they should have killed either of those wome, but damn, the marksmanship of those "expert" policemen was... Less than stellar."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,647 #6 February 8, 2013 Quote Quote Very tense time to be a LAPD cop. One is dead, another in the hospital, and the daughter of a retired cop is dead along with her fiance, all due to the ex-cop gone rogue with revenge on his mind. Very tense time for anyone driving a blue pickup in LA too. The cops sound like they are in a "Shoot first and ask questions later" mode. Piss poor shooting. How many shots fired? And they didn't even kill anyone? Not that they should have killed either of those wome, but damn, the marksmanship of those "expert" policemen was... Less than stellar. Yet some people think Kindergarten teachers in a classroom full of kids will be effective against a gunman who has suprise on his side. They are, of course, mistaken.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,351 #7 February 8, 2013 Quote Quote Quote Very tense time to be a LAPD cop. One is dead, another in the hospital, and the daughter of a retired cop is dead along with her fiance, all due to the ex-cop gone rogue with revenge on his mind. Very tense time for anyone driving a blue pickup in LA too. The cops sound like they are in a "Shoot first and ask questions later" mode. Piss poor shooting. How many shots fired? And they didn't even kill anyone? Not that they should have killed either of those wome, but damn, the marksmanship of those "expert" policemen was... Less than stellar. Yet some people think Kindergarten teachers in a classroom full of kids will be effective against a gunman who has suprise on his side. They are, of course, mistaken. Well, other than the fact that the teacher had ample time to herd the kids into a hiding place. Not a whole lot of "surprise" there. She would have had time to pull out a gun, get behind some cover (or at least concealment), take a supported shooting position and have a couple easy shots at anyone who walked through the door. Do it from behind where the door opens and there's a very, very good chance that the person entering the door will be hit before they realize that a threat is even present (the term is "ambush'). Making sure that the person walking through the door is the bad guy, making sure that the hit is disabling, and a couple other issues make it less than a sure thing, but a lot easier for the Kindergarden teacher than you want us to believe."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BartsDaddy 4 #8 February 8, 2013 How ma.y trucks drive thru kidergardan classes? Handguns are only used to fight your way to a good rifle Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #9 February 8, 2013 Quote How ma.y trucks drive thru kidergardan classes? We can stop now. You won the debate. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BartsDaddy 4 #10 February 8, 2013 Quote Quote How ma.y trucks drive thru kidergardan classes? We can stop now. You won the debate. Really I was not trying to win any debate. I was just currious in how LAPD having another fucked up shooting has anything to do with teachers being armed? Care to answer? Handguns are only used to fight your way to a good rifle Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skypuppy 1 #11 February 8, 2013 Quote Quote How ma.y trucks drive thru kidergardan classes? We can stop now. You won the debate. Actually, there's no real reason why a truck couldn't be used to enter a school through a wall, the windowns are big and the wall is not thick enuf to present any real impediment to just driving into it. And there's usually a nice wide paved expanse of asphalt outside the school for him to get a run at it. So if you really just expect to be able to lock the door and be safe, you'd be wrong.If some old guy can do it then obviously it can't be very extreme. Otherwise he'd already be dead. Bruce McConkey 'I thought we were gonna die, and I couldn't think of anyone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toolbox 0 #12 February 8, 2013 Any intruder,armed or not,should never make it into a classroom. They should be stopped at the metal detector prior to entering past the armed guard,just like all the courthouses I've seen in the last 20 years.It is not hard to hit someone at 20 feet or less if you have trained with your weapon. You might not kill them,but chances are very good that they will not want to advance further into the line of fire. Getting back to the real topic,if these cops fired on these people without provocation,then they should be charged. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
toolbox 0 #13 February 8, 2013 >Actually,theres no real reason why a truck couldn't be used to enter a school through a wall I agree! Imagine a 26ft van full of some boom crashing through the wall and detonating,or just detonating next to the building. It's occurred many times in many places before,including the us (oklahoma). If you have a suicidal nut job with rudimentery knowledge of chemistry who knows how to drive and they need to kill a bunch of innocents to fullfill their agenda,how do you stop that? Imagine a crater 20 ft or more across,next to a loaded group of classrooms. They have alot of security in the little country of israel,and they still have people blowing shit up. Guns are not 100% lethal,but being at ground zero is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davjohns 1 #14 February 8, 2013 Quote Quote Quote How ma.y trucks drive thru kidergardan classes? We can stop now. You won the debate. Really I was not trying to win any debate. I was just currious in how LAPD having another fucked up shooting has anything to do with teachers being armed? Care to answer? You missed the point. What was the point, you ask? Kallend wanted to redirect the thread.I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet.. But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tkhayes 140 #15 February 8, 2013 QuoteShe would have had time to pull out a gun, get behind some cover ...etc That is about the most massive oversimplification of a situation that I has ever heard. Take that same 'scenario' and apply it to LA Cops following a blue pickup truck. apparently your delusions are indeed grandeur about the abilities of most people. Perhaps you should stop watching Die Hard movies. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,351 #16 February 8, 2013 QuoteQuoteShe would have had time to pull out a gun, get behind some cover ...etc That is about the most massive oversimplification of a situation that I has ever heard. Take that same 'scenario' and apply it to LA Cops following a blue pickup truck. apparently your delusions are indeed grandeur about the abilities of most people. Perhaps you should stop watching Die Hard movies. Really? So in the Sandy Hook, Virginia Tech and Columbine shootings, how many classrooms heard the commotion and did something? Many barricaded the door with the classroom furniture. Others hid in cabinets and cupboards in the classroom. Still others escaped out of windows (not a very good option above ground floor, but some jumped from 2nd or 3rd floor windows or climbed out onto an adjoining roof). Anyone with a little forethought and a little training could have easily ambushed the shooter in any of those situations, had they been armed. The technique of "sit in place and wait for the shooter to come to you" is a very standard defensive tactic. You don't have to expose yourself much. You aren't moving (around corners or through doorways). You greatly lower the risk of being misidentified as the attacker. And you usually have the opportunity to take a very solid rest on a fixed object for your shooting position (personally, my first pick would be to flip the teacher's desk on it's front and get behind one of the drawer stacks for cover, rest the gun on top). Last but certainly not least, you are sitting still, waiting, not moving around trying to identifiy people. You have the opportunity to slow your breathing, stop the shaking and have a steadier shot. Rambo? John McClain? No. Defensive tactics 101."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 262 #17 February 8, 2013 Next gun question: So if one is an armed citizen, when is it legal to start firing back at police? Probably not a good idea, because you see how many shots they take even at unarmed people. But one does wonder about the legalities. How about in a Stand Your Ground state? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davjohns 1 #18 February 8, 2013 Actually, that's a pretty good question. I know the situation has cropped up more than once. At one time, there was some legal momentum for the idea that it was lawful to resist arrest if you knew the arrest to be unlawful. I didn't keep track of where that went. I would think that, in general, you could use lethal force when reasonably in fear for the life or severe physical injury for you or another. That's the rule in self defense. I could probably make a fine argument that these ladies were acting in self defense (if they had fired back and not started it). Andy does more criminal law than I did. He might have seen a case that sheds light on it. Looks like Indiana would be ok with it...http://rt.com/usa/news/indiana-shooting-law-state-591/ In this case, however, I think heads are going to roll....and money.I know it just wouldnt be right to kill all the stupid people that we meet.. But do you think it would be appropriate to just remove all of the warning labels and let nature take its course. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #19 February 9, 2013 Quote The authorities up in Big Bear encouraged everyone to go about their normal business today.... provided they aren't driving a white Lexus. In that case stay home because we'll fill it full of lead on sight. Tell them to hang out at the UNleaded pump.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #20 February 9, 2013 Cheers for Indiana!My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
