Enough with the gun talk...lets talk about violence.

[OHCHUTE 0]

Much not reported. Most all violence after midnight. More of an overpopulation problem than anything.

[ManagingPrime 0]

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Much not reported. Most all violence after midnight. More of an overpopulation problem than anything.

You may be interested in the work on John Calhoun.
http://www.cabinetmagazine.org/issues/42/wiles.php

[OHCHUTE 0]

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Much not reported. Most all violence after midnight. More of an overpopulation problem than anything.

You may be interested in the work on John Calhoun.
http://www.cabinetmagazine.org/issues/42/wiles.php

Yep. I use to live near the person. Best research ever and it's mostly forgotten. I've seen dramatic change. So has the world. Easter Island.. .clear case of this example and Haiti. Haiti wouldn't exist if it wasn't fed from the outside. We'll have 9 billion by 2050, Good luck.

[toolbox 0]

Right on dude!
Thugs in groups or with weapons will always try to use their position of superior advantage to get what they want.
Since high school I have always been big and athletic,and I have had a group of average sized guys wanting to kick the big guys ass and was only able to drop one before the other 4 got me down, and you know what happens next.
I've also had an asshole try to carjack me at gun point,but changed his mind when they seen my gun pointing back.
I've had crazy fucked up tweakers come at me with tire irons and then stop in there tracks because once again I produced my gun.Never had to fire a shot yet,and hopefully never will.

[lurch 0]

Wow. That was an impressive piece of reading.

Very, very eerie... The parallells to mass human social behavior are more than striking. Rwanda, for example. From what I've read, they'd been in the midst of quite the high density population boom when they experienced zombie apocalypse and killed off 750,000 people in a few weeks.

Societies flip out. Often. Constantly, some place in the world. Some seem to tolerate crowding better than others, the Japanese for instance seem to do ok and maintain order well, but there WAS that little outburst we call world war 2. Not to mention all the belligerent behavior that led up to it dating from as soon as they had ships that could go anywhere worth invading.

Japanese society, evolving corked up and isolated for a few thousand years was a case study in "how to design one hell of a warrior society" And when they got loose off their islands, look out, world, cause they were kicking everyone's ass for awhile until they went up against something even bigger.

If an orderly, technologically advanced civilization were ever to arise on its own out of Africa the rest of the planet is gonna be TOAST. Nobody has practiced true mass violence on a scale of hundreds of thousands within the US borders since the Euros took on the Indians. Our skills are stale. Go visit the Congo, or Sudan. Theirs are not.

The individuals participating in these phenomena do not appear to be aware that that is what they are doing... being a part of an outbreak of certain patterns of behavior- nevertheless the patterns are visible.

Emergent group behavior is what it is. Everyone has a different threshold of what they can tolerate how they can adapt and at what point they would begin manifesting said behavior.

Like frost on a windshield, it starts at random spots where the conditions to provoke it coincide, and it spreads, as the threshold conditions spread. Eventually becoming areawide.

"With more and more peers to defend against, males found it difficult and stressful to defend their territory, so they abandoned the activity. Normal social discourse within the mouse community broke down, and with it the ability of mice to form social bonds. The failures and dropouts congregated in large groups in the middle of the enclosure, their listless withdrawal occasionally interrupted by spasms and waves of pointless violence."

Columbine.
Virginia Tech.
Sandy Hook.

The occasional Chinese slasher outbreaks. Neverending African bush wars. Etc.

As fucked up as it is, I think its a basic survival mechanism. If we ever evolved a truly nonaggressive, -truly- civilized, healthy society, all the other sick, fucked up psychotic societies would kill it off in a hurry. Really, it'd never be allowed to evolve at all, would it?

To this day, the first thing every major human social unit does, as soon as it becomes strong enough, is to attack the one next to it.

Tell me I'm wrong.


-B

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

[lurch 0]

Damn, man.
"group of average sized guys wanting to kick the big guys ass and was only able to drop one before the other 4 got me down, and you know what happens next. "

*Shudders a bit* Yeah. Yeah I do. The way nobody who hasn't been there can ever understand. Glad you made it through it. Alone against numbers, worst place to be... when they get you down, its over...

You notice, it doesn't matter, you can be as inoffensive as you can, doesn't spare you. Its being Different that makes you a target. Lot of other guys my size (140 lb range) assume you big guys got nothing to worry about when in fact you end up targeted frequently for the same reasons- you're an outlier, you're just Different, and the wannabe machos come after you because they wanna look hard, show off how badass they are. By ganging up on isolated individuals that don't have a gang of their own.

The good news is, the experience winds up written all over you. You don't need to project it, show off with flashy decoration and a lot of tough guy noise. And the next guy thats eyeing you thinking he can take you if he and his buddies can get you alone by the railroad tracks thinks twice and chooses weaker prey.

Good luck out there man, watch your back, check the corners, protect your loved ones, never sit with your back to a door.
-B

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

[Stumpy 256]

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see davjohns reply above. You clearly have an agenda - you don't like guns or people having access to guns - and it has colored every post you've made here. It's fine if you don't want to have guns in your home. It doesn't give you the right to tell other people they can't have guns in theirs.

You know what they say about assumptions. Shows how little you know about me.

For the record:
I like guns, I'm actually a reasonable shot (used to shoot 7.62 on 500 and 600m ranges, and .22 in the winter.)
I don't mind people having access to guns either. Given that the second amendment is one of the cornerstones of theUS, If people want to have them in their home, given the right precautions, background checks, etc , then I have ZERO problem with that. if I lived in the US, I would probably have one for target use and so on, just because I could!

HOWEVER

That doesn't mean that there shouldn't be gun CONTROL. (I spend a lot of time in the US, and a number of other countries so this does interest me.)

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[toolbox 0]

Yeah,I learned to be wary ,just like you did.
I'm still 6ft and 225-235lbs, depending on what time of year it is, but at 50 years old my reflexes are slower and I've lost some horsepower.
Things hurt alot more than they used to as well.
Aging sucks!
I have always tried to avoid confrontations and now even more so try to stay out of situations and places where they are more likely to occur,and still I have found myself being caught in some tense situations in recent times.
The poor elderly who live in rough areas have no chance against the violent young thugs seeking to victimize them, without defensive tools(guns) to project strength toward the predators who would otherwise view them as prey.
Peace is achieved with the projection of strength to those who would make war on you.
This has played true throughout history.
I have always liked Teddy Roosevelts coined phrase"Speak softly, and carry a big stick".

[OHCHUTE 0]

Quote

Wow. That was an impressive piece of reading.

Very, very eerie... The parallells to mass human social behavior are more than striking. Rwanda, for example. From what I've read, they'd been in the midst of quite the high density population boom when they experienced zombie apocalypse and killed off 750,000 people in a few weeks.

Societies flip out. Often. Constantly, some place in the world. Some seem to tolerate crowding better than others, the Japanese for instance seem to do ok and maintain order well, but there WAS that little outburst we call world war 2. Not to mention all the belligerent behavior that led up to it dating from as soon as they had ships that could go anywhere worth invading.

Japanese society, evolving corked up and isolated for a few thousand years was a case study in "how to design one hell of a warrior society" And when they got loose off their islands, look out, world, cause they were kicking everyone's ass for awhile until they went up against something even bigger.

If an orderly, technologically advanced civilization were ever to arise on its own out of Africa the rest of the planet is gonna be TOAST. Nobody has practiced true mass violence on a scale of hundreds of thousands within the US borders since the Euros took on the Indians. Our skills are stale. Go visit the Congo, or Sudan. Theirs are not.

The individuals participating in these phenomena do not appear to be aware that that is what they are doing... being a part of an outbreak of certain patterns of behavior- nevertheless the patterns are visible.

Emergent group behavior is what it is. Everyone has a different threshold of what they can tolerate how they can adapt and at what point they would begin manifesting said behavior.

Like frost on a windshield, it starts at random spots where the conditions to provoke it coincide, and it spreads, as the threshold conditions spread. Eventually becoming areawide.

"With more and more peers to defend against, males found it difficult and stressful to defend their territory, so they abandoned the activity. Normal social discourse within the mouse community broke down, and with it the ability of mice to form social bonds. The failures and dropouts congregated in large groups in the middle of the enclosure, their listless withdrawal occasionally interrupted by spasms and waves of pointless violence."

Columbine.
Virginia Tech.
Sandy Hook.

The occasional Chinese slasher outbreaks. Neverending African bush wars. Etc.

As fucked up as it is, I think its a basic survival mechanism. If we ever evolved a truly nonaggressive, -truly- civilized, healthy society, all the other sick, fucked up psychotic societies would kill it off in a hurry. Really, it'd never be allowed to evolve at all, would it?

To this day, the first thing every major human social unit does, as soon as it becomes strong enough, is to attack the one next to it.

Tell me I'm wrong.


-B

Modern Japanese warrior society WWII was modeled after Book of Five Rings. Just google it and you'll get to the most famous warrior...

[blueblur 0]

Quote

No bullshit. It's a fact.

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv09.pdf

Your mileage may vary, but it's a fact none the less.

Yep, 1 in 12 on average will experience a violent or property theft crime. High enough average for me and mine to be armed and prepared.

In every man's life he will be allotted one good woman and one good dog. That's all you get, so appreciate them while the time you have with them lasts.

- RiggerLee

[billvon 2,466]

>Yep, 1 in 12 on average will experience a violent or property theft crime. High
>enough average for me and mine to be armed and prepared.

Happened to me. I managed to defend myself without a gun. Such a thing is inconceivable to most gun fanatics, but it actually does happen.

[kallend 1,672]

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Quote

No bullshit. It's a fact.

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv09.pdf

Your mileage may vary, but it's a fact none the less.

Yep, 1 in 12 on average will experience a violent or property theft crime. High enough average for me and mine to be armed and prepared.

I had some socket wrenches taken that I had left outside. Not sure if I would have shot the perp, though. Petty thievery hardly warrants summary execution.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Skyrad 0]

I agree but legally could you have?

When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy.
Lucius Annaeus Seneca

[rushmc 18]

[
Happened to me. I managed to defend myself without a gun. Such a thing is inconceivable to most gun fanatics, but it actually does happen.

It is dissapointing when you do this......

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[quade 3]

Quote

Quote

No bullshit. It's a fact.
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv09.pdf
Your mileage may vary, but it's a fact none the less.

Yep, 1 in 12 on average will experience a violent or property theft crime. High enough average for me and mine to be armed and prepared.

I think you might want to revisit the numbers. It's not 1 in 12. According to the report in the link it's more like 17 in 1000, less than 2%. Less than a quarter of what you've stated.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Gravitymaster 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

No bullshit. It's a fact.
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv09.pdf
Your mileage may vary, but it's a fact none the less.

Yep, 1 in 12 on average will experience a violent or property theft crime. High enough average for me and mine to be armed and prepared.

I think you might want to revisit the numbers. It's not 1 in 12. According to the report in the link it's more like 17 in 1000, less than 2%. Less than a quarter of what you've stated.

Nothing to be concerned about, then. Unless you are one of the less than 2%

[ManagingPrime 0]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

No bullshit. It's a fact.
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv09.pdf
Your mileage may vary, but it's a fact none the less.

Yep, 1 in 12 on average will experience a violent or property theft crime. High enough average for me and mine to be armed and prepared.

I think you might want to revisit the numbers. It's not 1 in 12. According to the report in the link it's more like 17 in 1000, less than 2%. Less than a quarter of what you've stated.

Nothing to be concerned about, then. Unless you are one of the less than 2%

Try 10%+++.... A lot of crimes go unreported. I've never reported an instance of violence against my person of theft of my property, yet I've had both experiences.

Per NY Times: Study shows nearly 1 in 5 women report having been sexually assaulted.

Another study shows that nearly 15% of all US adults admit they were a victim of domestic violence.

To not recognize and confront just how violent our society/species is we not only marginalize the past and future victims of violence, but in essence we victimize them all over again.

[quade 3]

Yeah, for instance Adam Lanza's mother didn't say a thing.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[ManagingPrime 0]

I don't really understand what you are trying to get at. Additionally, I don't find that particular case of violence all that interesting...maybe because it's a part of the new normal. If your interested in mass killings at schools you may find the largest us mass school killing interesting.

[toolbox 0]

There are an alarming number of people who do not want to face the fact that there have been, and still are violent individuals, and many cultures that are inclined to be violent.
Alot of people want so badly to believe that mankind has evolved away from of our animal urges,and that our big brains,and intelligence have eliminated the selfish and violent tendancies that all animals possess.
Humans exhibit irrational behavior everywhere we look,for instance over eating,jealousy,ect.
I love to skydive but,it is a very selfish and irrational act.
When we skydive,we use alot of fossil fuel and,we risk serrious injury or death for no real good rational reason.
The same is true of many aspects of modern life such as fast cars,fast motorcycles,substance use,ect. If you get right down to it,humans exhibit far worse behaviors than any other creatures,because we possess a high level of rationality,yet we choose to ignore it.
Like I've said before,with our huge population,and large presence of poverty,I am surprised there is not far more violence.

[billvon 2,466]

>There are an alarming number of people who do not want to face the fact that there
>have been, and still are violent individuals, and many cultures that are inclined to be
>violent.

>If you get right down to it,humans exhibit far worse
>behaviors than any other creatures,because we possess a high level of rationality,yet
>we choose to ignore it.

I don't think we ignore it at all. If we ignored it we wouldn't have laws against it. We wouldn't have police, or courts, or Mothers Against Drunk Driving, or programs to combat domestic violence. We wouldn't spend $37 billion a year on prisons.

[ManagingPrime 0]

Quote

>There are an alarming number of people who do not want to face the fact that there
>have been, and still are violent individuals, and many cultures that are inclined to be
>violent.

>If you get right down to it,humans exhibit far worse
>behaviors than any other creatures,because we possess a high level of rationality,yet
>we choose to ignore it.

I don't think we ignore it at all. If we ignored it we wouldn't have laws against it. We wouldn't have police, or courts, or Mothers Against Drunk Driving, or programs to combat domestic violence. We wouldn't spend $37 billion a year on prisons.

One could argue that the law, courts, police, etc. Do allow people to ignore the violence. I.e. "it's their problem, not mine".

One could go on to argue that kind of mindset allows for a detachment that makes it possible for a sense of personal security.

It put it simply, I'm sure members of leo have a much different perception of how violent thier society is vs. the average citizen.

[kallend 1,672]

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

Quote

No bullshit. It's a fact.
http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv09.pdf
Your mileage may vary, but it's a fact none the less.

Yep, 1 in 12 on average will experience a violent or property theft crime. High enough average for me and mine to be armed and prepared.

I think you might want to revisit the numbers. It's not 1 in 12. According to the report in the link it's more like 17 in 1000, less than 2%. Less than a quarter of what you've stated.

Nothing to be concerned about, then. Unless you are one of the less than 2%

Try 10%+++.... A lot of crimes go unreported. I've never reported an instance of violence against my person of theft of my property, yet I've had both experiences.

Per NY Times: Study shows nearly 1 in 5 women report having been sexually assaulted.

Another study shows that nearly 15% of all US adults admit they were a victim of domestic violence.

.

15% eh? Not much less than the % of Americans who claim to have met extra-terrestrial beings.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[billvon 2,466]

>One could argue that the law, courts, police, etc. Do allow people to ignore the
>violence. I.e. "it's their problem, not mine".

Hmm. Given that we all pay taxes and do jury duty to support that system I'd tend to disagree.

>It put it simply, I'm sure members of leo have a much different perception of how
>violent thier society is vs. the average citizen.

Of course. And firemen have a much different perception of how flammable houses are. Which is generally because so many of them are on fire when they see them.

[toolbox 0]

Laws,and courts are more about punishing unlawful behavior and collecting money than protecting people from violence.
Thinking that the justice system will protect you from becoming victimized is living in denial as to how violent our world is.