1969912 0 #1 September 12, 2012 Brilliant http://www.navytimes.com/news/2012/09/navy-russian-warships-displayed-dnc-veterans-tribute-091112/ QuoteOn the last night of the Democratic National Convention, a retired Navy four-star took the stage to pay tribute to veterans. Behind him, on a giant screen, the image of four hulking warships reinforced his patriotic message. But there was a big mistake in the stirring backdrop: those are Russian warships. While retired Adm. John Nathman, a former commander of Fleet Forces Command, honored vets as America’s best, the ships from the Russian Federation Navy were arrayed like sentinels on the big screen above. These were the very Soviet-era combatants that Nathman and Cold Warriors like him had once squared off against. “The ships are definitely Russian,” said noted naval author Norman Polmar after reviewing hi-resolution photos from the event. “There’s no question of that in my mind.” Pic: http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r316/MACDD/091112-dnc1-800.jpg "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #2 September 12, 2012 Well, that is a fascinating story about radar trivia you've got there. I wonder if there were any photo gaffs made in the Republican tribute to veterans and troops. Probably not.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
1969912 0 #3 September 12, 2012 QuoteWell, that is a fascinating story about radar trivia you've got there. I wonder if their were any photo gaffs made in the Republican tribute to veterans and troops. Probably not. It's possible. Even probable. Post a gaffe from the RNC convention that is as good as the one above. "Once we got to the point where twenty/something's needed a place on the corner that changed the oil in their cars we were doomed . . ." -NickDG Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #4 September 12, 2012 QuoteQuoteWell, that is a fascinating story about radar trivia you've got there. I wonder if their were any photo gaffs made in the Republican tribute to veterans and troops. Probably not. It's possible. Even probable. Post a gaffe from the RNC convention that is as good as the one above. Well, I'm just going to focus on the RNC tribute to Vets and the Troops. I mean, let's just compare apples to apples here. Let's see, I'll hit the rewind on my TiVo....hmmm...looking...looking...hmmm. You don't happen to know what night the RNC did their tribute to the Vets and Troops do you? The one where they all got up and said thank you to the Vets and Troops? Strangely I can't seem to find it anywhere. Not even so much as a mention during Romney's speech either. Hmmm...damn "liberal" TiVos. BTW, do you happen to know where I can get a Made in the USA Romney pin? Nobody would be so dumb as to outsource them from China. http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics/2012/05/romneys-china-made-olympic-pins-ill-timed-small-potatoes/51889/quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #5 September 12, 2012 Quote Brillianthttp://www.navytimes.com/news/2012/09/navy-russian-warships-displayed-dnc-veterans-tribute-091112/ Honest. The Soviet Union collapsed when they tried to match spending with their biggest potential adversary just as we will spending over six times as much. Drawing parallels with them is a fine path to realistically portraying America's current situation. I'm shocked that a politician (who needs to appease the defense industry paying to get him elected) would be so truthful, although we do live in unprecedented times. It's not a perfect analog (I doubt the Soviet Union had "Free Speech Zones" for protesters beyond the media presence) but is probably close enough for government work. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sfzombie 3 #6 September 12, 2012 first off, i wouldn't consider it a gaffe, as hinted at later in the thread, we are on the same path as russia if we don't curb some spending. and also, the russians are not given near the credit due to them for saving our asses in ww2. yes, i said it, if it were not for russian troops and their fierce opposition on the eastern front, we might have fallen to the axis. now, i like sushi and beer, but am very grateful to all the veterans in that war, especially the russians.http://kitswv.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
likearock 1 #7 September 12, 2012 QuoteQuoteWell, that is a fascinating story about radar trivia you've got there. I wonder if their were any photo gaffs made in the Republican tribute to veterans and troops. Probably not. It's possible. Even probable. Post a gaffe from the RNC convention that is as good as the one above. Umm, how about the fact that Mr. Romney never even mentioned our troops in his speech at all? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #8 September 12, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteWell, that is a fascinating story about radar trivia you've got there. I wonder if their were any photo gaffs made in the Republican tribute to veterans and troops. Probably not. It's possible. Even probable. Post a gaffe from the RNC convention that is as good as the one above. Umm, how about the fact that Mr. Romney never even mentioned our troops in his speech at all? 100% safe. Unlikely to cost him much, if anything, in the general election. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lefty 0 #9 September 12, 2012 QuoteWell, that is a fascinating story about radar trivia you've got there. I wonder if there were any photo gaffs made in the Republican tribute to veterans and troops. Probably not. It's an interesting phenomenon that the people who care the most about who paid the flashiest lip service to the troops rarely were "troops" themselves. I couldn't give less of a fuck, nor could the other vets I know. Maybe it's that whole substance over style thing I have going on.Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful. -Calvin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #10 September 12, 2012 Well, I've never been a waiter, but I say thank you when one brings me my food. I've never been a doctor, but say thank you when they remove my cancer. I've never been a fireman, but say thank you when they stop the wildfires near my home. Since when did a person have to have been in the military for them to say thank you to the troops?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lefty 0 #11 September 12, 2012 QuoteSince when did a person have to have been in the military for them to say thank you to the troops? Not my point. How do you see Romney following through on any gratitude he does express?Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful. -Calvin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #12 September 12, 2012 QuoteQuoteWell, that is a fascinating story about radar trivia you've got there. I wonder if there were any photo gaffs made in the Republican tribute to veterans and troops. Probably not. It's an interesting phenomenon that the people who care the most about who paid the flashiest lip service to the troops rarely were "troops" themselves. I couldn't give less of a fuck, nor could the other vets I know. Maybe it's that whole substance over style thing I have going on. Romney avoided military service in Vietnam by seeking and receiving four draft deferments, according to Selective Service records. They included college deferments and a 31-month stretch as a "minister of religion" in France. Romney, however, was an enthusiastic backer of the war he so carefully avoided.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lefty 0 #13 September 12, 2012 QuoteRomney avoided military service in Vietnam by seeking and receiving four draft deferments, according to Selective Service records. They included college deferments and a 31-month stretch as a "minister of religion" in France. Romney, however, was an enthusiastic backer of the war he so carefully avoided. Ah ha! This is exactly what I was driving at in my first post. You guys keep giving Romney grief for not saying thanks even though his words mean nothing to you. What a senseless exercise.Provoking a reaction isn't the same thing as saying something meaningful. -Calvin Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 622 #14 September 12, 2012 Coming from a perfesser makes that pretty funny. We should never have had the college deferment...education is a waste. Send them all to their deaths at the hands of our enemies. As a vet, I always supported the proper deferments. Just not those that ran to Canada or North Viet Nam. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #15 September 12, 2012 QuoteComing from a perfesser makes that pretty funny. Yes, those deferments as a minister of religion were pretty funny, now that said minister has become a hawk.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 622 #16 September 12, 2012 Sure, people's religious beliefs and involvement should be laughed at. While I clearly disagree with religious doctrine, it IS one's right to pursue one should they desire. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #17 September 12, 2012 QuoteSure, people's religious beliefs and involvement should be laughed at. While I clearly disagree with religious doctrine, it IS one's right to pursue one should they desire. Agreed. However, to use it as an excuse to avoid a war that you enthusiastically support for other young men your age is another thing altogether. The ministry could have waited.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,254 #18 September 12, 2012 QuoteWhile I clearly disagree with religious doctrine, it IS one's right to pursue one should they desire. In the context of a draft deferment, why?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
devildog 0 #19 September 12, 2012 Quotefirst off, i wouldn't consider it a gaffe, as hinted at later in the thread, we are on the same path as russia if we don't curb some spending. and also, the russians are not given near the credit due to them for saving our asses in ww2. yes, i said it, if it were not for russian troops and their fierce opposition on the eastern front, we might have fallen to the axis. now, i like sushi and beer, but am very grateful to all the veterans in that war, especially the russians. Europe would have been in trouble, but there was no way Japan, Germany and Italy would have ever succeeded in a US invasion. They simply didn't have the logistics for such a campaign.You stop breathing for a few minutes and everyone jumps to conclusions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #20 September 12, 2012 QuoteQuotefirst off, i wouldn't consider it a gaffe, as hinted at later in the thread, we are on the same path as russia if we don't curb some spending. and also, the russians are not given near the credit due to them for saving our asses in ww2. yes, i said it, if it were not for russian troops and their fierce opposition on the eastern front, we might have fallen to the axis. now, i like sushi and beer, but am very grateful to all the veterans in that war, especially the russians. Europe would have been in trouble, but there was no way Japan, Germany and Italy would have ever succeeded in a US invasion. They simply didn't have the logistics for such a campaign. They didn't all the time they had Britain in the west and USSR in the east on Germany's case. Had the Nazis won complete control of all Europe including Russia, and all their industries and resources I'm quite sure the logistics would have just been a matter of time.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 622 #21 September 12, 2012 That's a pretty fair point John, maybe I didn't consider it that way. I do still think we need a contingency of college exclusions though. Just in case... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #22 September 12, 2012 QuoteQuote Europe would have been in trouble, but there was no way Japan, Germany and Italy would have ever succeeded in a US invasion. They simply didn't have the logistics for such a campaign. They didn't all the time they had Britain in the west and USSR in the east on Germany's case. Had the Nazis won complete control of all Europe including Russia, and all their industries and resources I'm quite sure the logistics would have just been a matter of time. logistics don't get past the problem. They would spend most of their resources holding their territories...no bandwidth to attack a massive nation across an ocean. Germany would have held Europe, Japan would hold east Asia, America would hold the Americas. A peace would be negotiated to that effect. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #23 September 12, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuote Europe would have been in trouble, but there was no way Japan, Germany and Italy would have ever succeeded in a US invasion. They simply didn't have the logistics for such a campaign. They didn't all the time they had Britain in the west and USSR in the east on Germany's case. Had the Nazis won complete control of all Europe including Russia, and all their industries and resources I'm quite sure the logistics would have just been a matter of time. logistics don't get past the problem. They would spend most of their resources holding their territories...no bandwidth to attack a massive nation across an ocean. Germany would have held Europe, Japan would hold east Asia, America would hold the Americas. A peace would be negotiated to that effect. Germany was developing the A9 intercontinental ballistic missile. The US had no means of defense or retaliation. Ever hear of Werhner von Braun? Operation Paperclip would have been far different with him on the other side.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #24 September 12, 2012 Quote Germany was developing the A9 intercontinental ballistic missile. The US had no means of defense or retaliation. Ever hear of Werhner von Braun? Operation Paperclip would have been far different with him on the other side. You cannot conquer a nation with rockets. Germany had the V2s raining down on London and still couldn't close the deal. We rained highly accurate cruise missiles on Iraq throughout the 90s but it still took ground troops to get Hussein. Without captured Germans, the US would not have developed rockets in a meaningful time frame against Nazi Europe, but it still would have done fine with nuclear arms development and had the planes to deliver the payload. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #25 September 13, 2012 QuoteQuote Germany was developing the A9 intercontinental ballistic missile. The US had no means of defense or retaliation. Ever hear of Werhner von Braun? Operation Paperclip would have been far different with him on the other side. You cannot conquer a nation with rockets. Germany had the V2s raining down on London and still couldn't close the deal. We rained highly accurate cruise missiles on Iraq throughout the 90s but it still took ground troops to get Hussein. Without captured Germans, the US would not have developed rockets in a meaningful time frame against Nazi Europe, but it still would have done fine with nuclear arms development and had the planes to deliver the payload. Only (approx) 500 V2s landed on London, not exactly a rainstorm, mostly on account of bombing the storage sites by UK based bombers. If UK had fallen in 1940 Peenemunde wouldn't have been bombed and the US would not have had British jet engine technology or the cavity magnetron. German radars and jet fighters would have made mincemeat of long range US piston engined bombers. The US wouldn't have had the Maud Report to start off the Manhattan project, or the solution to the problems of implosion. Germany would have had all that.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
