SkyDekker 1,145 #26 August 23, 2012 QuoteFor that we've gone too far in the other direction. TV and the media portrays anorexia as the standard of beauty. This leads even normally fit women (i.e. ones with healthy median BMI's) to have self-image issues, which leads to problems with maintaining a healthy weight. Yet violence on TV, and in movies and video games, does not lead to violence. Why do you think that is? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,434 #27 August 23, 2012 >How many girls really become anorexic? Having completely unrealistic standards of beauty leads both to anorexia AND significant weight gain. You have people who feel that they must be anorexic to be beautiful; 3 out of 100 American women have problems with either anorexia or bulimia. On the other side of things you have healthy women who compare themselves to these standards of beauty and find themselves severely lacking, leading to fad diets (pushed in the same media outlets as those same images) that end up causing people to gain weight. In general, eating a poor diet leads to lethargy, less activity and more hunger, and these people get caught up in a cycle of diet - lethargy - weight gain - diet. That's not to say that having different images of women in society will solve all our problems, of course. It is only one small part of the problem. But your statement that "it's time that we as a society started having standards of beauty that emphasize thinness" (paraphrased) is absurd; we already have that, and it's unhealthy as it is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #28 August 23, 2012 Bill but we don't...and you know it! I was inline the other day at Pannera Breads with a friend and there were two women in front of me. No joke one turns to the other after placing an order that could feed the most of the Ivory Coast and says to her friend "Sexy is an attitude." I'm sorry...WHAT! It's like a alcoholic saying "Sobriety is a state of mind!" No I'm sorry she has a problem with carbohydrates and needs to separate herself from her very dangerous diet! And no having more chins than a Chinese phone book and having a sheet cake top is anything but sexy! It's downright dangerous! And IT'S GROSSING ME OUT AND COSTING ME AN ARM AND A LEG!Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LuckyMcSwervy 0 #29 August 23, 2012 QuoteAnd IT'S GROSSING ME OUT AND COSTING ME AN ARM AND A LEG! Why don't you telecommute so you don't have to mingle with the dregs of society every day?Always be kinder than you feel. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,434 #30 August 23, 2012 >Bill but we don't...and you know it! Go through the last ten years of Cosmo. Find a fat woman on the cover. (Or even a less than skinny one.) See how many fad diets you count on the cover during that time. >I was inline the other day at Pannera Breads with a friend and there were two >women in front of me. No joke one turns to the other after placing an order that could >feed the most of the Ivory Coast and says to her friend "Sexy is an attitude." I don't believe any of your "conveniently noticed" stories about other people any more. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LuckyMcSwervy 0 #31 August 23, 2012 QuoteI don't believe any of your "conveniently noticed" stories about other people any more. +1 I call bullshit. I think you make up these stories to have something to talk about. It's okay to not contribute controversy/drama on a daily basis. Sometimes it's nice to just sit quietly and take it all in...Always be kinder than you feel. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #32 August 23, 2012 Quote>Bill but we don't...and you know it! Go through the last ten years of Cosmo. Find a fat woman on the cover. (Or even a less than skinny one.) See how many fad diets you count on the cover during that time. Would you buy a product with someone unattractive on the cover? Marketing is a simple mirror of biological drive. Biology dictates we should live a long healthy happy life? So.....well that's why skinny and in shape are in. Don’t fight it! In reality you and are nothing more than hairless apes. We are just doing what is in our nature. We desire attractive healthy people of a given size and shape. And that shape is )( not ()Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,648 #33 August 23, 2012 Quote Maybe it's time that we as a society stopped tolerating people who are mathematically inept? But the House of Representatives is required by Constitution.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #34 August 23, 2012 Quote >Go through the last ten years of Cosmo. Find a fat woman on the cover. (Or even a less than skinny one.) See how many fad diets you count on the cover during that time. I don't think that's driving the bulk of the population - there's a lot more in conflict (public discourse, etc etc etc) and rejection of that standard than support really. example - Post a picture of a skinny (but healthy) girl in Bonfire (not even a runway model) and ask for opinions - I bet more than half the comments are in derision of the girl, or about guys that like a bit of meat on women, or comments about personality, or comments about skychicks being cool because they dive, or comments about attitude. Less than half would be approval. Sometimes the derision is pretty cruel even. (lots of male comments can be screened due to them just sucking up to the female posters, but not all ) Fat kids used to be teased in school, now the thin ones are - I don't think that's a good trend. I'd rather the focus was on fitness and nobody got teased for their form at all. But just moving the teasing to a different form/shape is sad. I'm also sad to see kids and teens in terrible shape. Again, their shape is a result, but the lack of health is the sad part. I think, except for those insecure in the first place, most people have a clear picture of reality vs fashion modeling and your magazine examples is a bit of a moot point - they are just selling what people are buying. What's disturbing, is that the opinions are so extreme and sometimes PC- blind as to be comical. hey, she's thick - so what hey, she's a stick - so what etc etc etc different strokes is just fine with me - we all have our preferences and it's silly to mock anyone just because they have one different than what PC or otherwise ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,434 #35 August 23, 2012 >Would you buy a product with someone unattractive on the cover? To me the attractiveness of the person on the cover doesn't really enter into it. (I don't buy Cosmo or People or Teen etc.) But for a lot of people it IS important - and the cover girls are chosen to come closest to our society's standards of beauty. Which means that "absurdly thin" IS our standard of beauty. >We desire attractive healthy people of a given size and shape. And that shape is )( not () Nor is it | - but that's what is "in" in society now. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #36 August 23, 2012 Quote>We desire attractive healthy people of a given size and shape. And that shape is )( not () Nor is it | - but that's what is "in" in society now. no - that's what is in for marketing and the fashion industry "society", IMHO, has a much broader view (so to speak) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,434 #37 August 23, 2012 >no - that's what is in for marketing Agreed. And that's what's in for marketing because that's what sells - which is another way of saying that's society's most prevalent opinion on what "attractive" is. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,400 #38 August 23, 2012 Quote Quote Maybe it's time that we as a society stopped tolerating people who are mathematically inept? But the House of Representatives is required by Constitution. No only that, but lotteries bring in a lot of money that would otherwise require more taxes."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #39 August 23, 2012 Quote>no - that's what is in for marketing Agreed. And that's what's in for marketing because that's what sells - which is another way of saying that's society's most prevalent opinion on what "attractive" is. fine - but "attractive on a magazine cover" <> (necessarily) "attractive in real life" do the experiment in Bonfire or just find the 1000 existing threads that are already there - you know my point is valid. or we can play with semantics and oddball analogies - that's fun for a short while ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,434 #40 August 23, 2012 >fine - but "attractive on a magazine cover" <> (necessarily) "attractive in real life" Agreed, not necessarily. However, IN GENERAL, it is. That's why it sells. Indeed, marketing firms spend millions trying to figure out "what look" sells the most magazines/movies/soft drinks/beer. You may not like such a look (I don't either) but marketing people are going for the maximum number of sales, not a look that works for 100% of the population (which isn't possible anyway.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #41 August 23, 2012 I don't mind the look as long as there is muscle and not just skin/bones. face it, given a choice between: 1 - a cool, athletic, nice and smart girl vs 2 - a cool, athletic, nice, smart and very good looking girl I'd pick #2 back to our points;;;;;;; I don't agree that (what sells) = (what people want for themselves) - there's a difference. Not even IN GENERAL. Look around. I think when shopping for cars, in general, we'd rather see the car clean and waxed rather than just sitting in mud. Doesn't mean in real life we wax the car twice a day reality TV is very popular - but I don't think people, in general, want to be or associate with, stupid idiots clambering for bit of pathetic attention - even if that's what sells as for magazines - you got a point across - something that grabs your attention doesn't necessarily mean that it was attractive, it just stands out - shock value, over the top features or makeup, etc etc etc all works - doesn't mean it = society's standards for attractiveness. Sometimes it's just the opposite ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,434 #42 August 23, 2012 >I don't agree that (what sells) = (what people want for themselves) - there's a >difference. Not even IN GENERAL. Look around. I do - and from what I can see there are a lot more people like Shah than like you. >I think when shopping for cars, in general, we'd rather see the car clean and waxed >rather than just sitting in mud. Doesn't mean in real life we wax the car twice a day Agreed 100%. And just because we want to see the skinny model on the cover doesn't mean people are willing to run 5 miles a day and eat celery to get there. There is definitely a gap between what we'd like and what we're willing to do to get it. >as for magazines - you got a point across - something that grabs your attention >doesn't necessarily mean that it was attractive, it just stands out - shock value Also agreed, but that's a different issue (i.e. the big 3 year old breastfeeding.) That's not an attempt to portray what people find attractive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #43 August 23, 2012 Quote>There is definitely a gap between what we'd like and what we're willing to do to get it. We're writing past each other. What we want to see on the cover isn't necessarily what we like in real life. It's just a representation conducive to sales - and not necessarily what we consider an ideal. You are positing that it's exactly that - a representation of an ideal. I disagree, and it seems comments from most people on the topic support me. (Unless they are all lying just to score points with the 'crowd'). Remember Liar, Liar (Jim Carrey movie)? "Daddy, my teacher says people are beautiful based on what's inside" "That's just something ugly people say" ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,434 #44 August 23, 2012 >You are positing that it's exactly that - a representation of an ideal. Well, it is as close as a marketing company can come to that ideal. >I disagree, and it seems comments from most people on the topic support me. Most people here, yes. But again, I am suggesting that there are more people like Shah out there (who has stated that that IS his ideal) than you and/or the people who regularly post here. If you or I were closer to the average US consumer, the covers of magazines would look quite different. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #45 August 24, 2012 QuoteI am suggesting that there are more people like Shah out there depends in engineering and science....no on my home DZ....i don't know But i'll give you my thoughts, my "perfect" girl is a size 6 about 5ft 6 so what is that.....130lbs? That's about a small to a medium in size. I live an athletic life with the yoga and the rock climbing and the hiking and motorbikes....i want a partner and not a liability. Does that make me a dick? Maybe! And I also don't wish to pay for peoples unhealthy habits. Does that make me a dick? Maybe!Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
champu 1 #46 August 24, 2012 QuoteWhat would you could you do with $8k? That all depends, what would you could you do with sentence? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bolas 5 #47 August 24, 2012 Quote And I also don't wish to pay for peoples unhealthy habits. Does this mean you are against government healthcare?Stupidity if left untreated is self-correcting If ya can't be good, look good, if that fails, make 'em laugh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #48 August 24, 2012 QuoteQuote And I also don't wish to pay for peoples unhealthy habits. Does this mean you are against government healthcare? careful - he's been trying to portray himself as a bleeding heart liberal with a slightly angry DFL envy streak - if you point out a libertarian type statement, it might hurt his chances with women that read these forums ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LuckyMcSwervy 0 #49 August 24, 2012 QuoteBut i'll give you my thoughts, my "perfect" girl is a size 6 about 5ft 6 so what is that.....130lbs? That's about a small to a medium in size. I live an athletic life with the yoga and the rock climbing and the hiking and motorbikes....i want a partner and not a liability. That height and weight is me to a T. However, you get this fantasy girl and she is diagnosed with a non-curable illness such as Multiple Sclerosis. Is she then a Shah-perceived liability? Do you run for the hills after hearing a less than favorable diagnosis?Always be kinder than you feel. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shah269 0 #50 August 25, 2012 Quote Quote And I also don't wish to pay for peoples unhealthy habits. Does this mean you are against government healthcare? sigh......i have no clue Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay. The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
