Ban Stun Guns?

[JohnRich 4]

News:

Court: Stun gun possession is a right protected by Michigan, U.S. constitutions

"Possession of a taser or stun guns is a right protected by the U.S. and Michigan constitutions, the Michigan Court of Appeals ruled in a decision released this morning that bars the prosecution of suspects arrested in Bay and Muskegon counties.

"The three-judge appeals panel cited a 2008 U.S. Supreme Court decision involving handguns which “guarantee(s) the individual the right to possess and carry weapons in case of confrontation” to find a state law barring the use of tasers and stun guns by private citizens was unconstitutional..."

Full story: Detroit Free Press

[christelsabine 1]

Wow, you're back, JR.

Did you scan your country for news like that?

Hard job, no?

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[JohnRich 4]

Blah blah blah.

[christelsabine 1]

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Blah blah blah.

That's what I thought at first but, I am beeing polite.

dudeist skydiver # 3105

[kelpdiver 2]

the number of deaths by "non lethal" tasers is too high to pretend that they're a non lethal weapon.

Therefore, cops and citizens should be able to possess and use them in the same situations where they are permitted to carry and use guns.

[mnealtx 0]

Where are Tasers touted as 'non-lethal' outside of the press?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[JohnRich 4]

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I am beeing polite.

Don't get stung.

[ManagingPrime 0]

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Where are Tasers touted as 'non-lethal' outside of the press?

I believe the term used is "less-than lethal" and that term is used by the jack ass cops quick to taze the shit out of somebody for "non-compliance".

I was hoping this thread was about banning cops from using these devices.

[mnealtx 0]

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Where are Tasers touted as 'non-lethal' outside of the press?

I believe the term used is "less-than lethal" and that term is used by the jack ass cops quick to taze the shit out of somebody for "non-compliance".

I was hoping this thread was about banning cops from using these devices.

Much better to be shot, I'm sure.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[ManagingPrime 0]

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Where are Tasers touted as 'non-lethal' outside of the press?

I believe the term used is "less-than lethal" and that term is used by the jack ass cops quick to taze the shit out of somebody for "non-compliance".

I was hoping this thread was about banning cops from using these devices.

Much better to be shot, I'm sure.

Not at all. There can be, and often are, severe consequences if a police officer goes off half-cocked and shoots someone with a gun.

All this "less-than lethal" and "non-lethal" talk has resulted in good knows how many instances of people being electrocuted for "offenses" like "not STFU when told too".

[mnealtx 0]

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Where are Tasers touted as 'non-lethal' outside of the press?

I believe the term used is "less-than lethal" and that term is used by the jack ass cops quick to taze the shit out of somebody for "non-compliance".

I was hoping this thread was about banning cops from using these devices.

Much better to be shot, I'm sure.

Not at all. There can be, and often are, severe consequences if a police officer goes off half-cocked and shoots someone with a gun.

All this "less-than lethal" and "non-lethal" talk has resulted in good knows how many instances of people being electrocuted for "offenses" like "not STFU when told too".

Electrocuted? The cops are plugging extension cords into their Tasers now before using them? Must make it a bit difficult to patrol dragging those around.... or maybe you're being just a *bit* hyperbolic?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[kelpdiver 2]

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Where are Tasers touted as 'non-lethal' outside of the press?

I believe the term used is "less-than lethal" and that term is used by the jack ass cops quick to taze the shit out of somebody for "non-compliance".

I was hoping this thread was about banning cops from using these devices.

Much better to be shot, I'm sure.

Like Oscar Grant?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BART_Police_shooting_of_Oscar_Grant

Taser long claimed their devices to be non lethal and sold them to police departments on that premise. It has turned out to be less than truthful. Cops like it because unlike a baton blow, no obvious marks and no pesky videos of the incident showing the officer having too much fun.

LEOs have to stop using it as a retaliation option or pacification tool and treat it exactly the same way as their gun.

[mnealtx 0]

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LEOs have to stop using it as a retaliation option or pacification tool and treat it exactly the same way as their gun.

Absent the hyperbole, agreed.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[billvon 2,400]

>Electrocuted?

Yes. That's how tasers work - they pass an electric current through your body. Sometimes that kills people. That is the definition of electrocution.

[mnealtx 0]

Missing the point again.... why am I unsurprised?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[ManagingPrime 0]

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Where are Tasers touted as 'non-lethal' outside of the press?

I believe the term used is "less-than lethal" and that term is used by the jack ass cops quick to taze the shit out of somebody for "non-compliance".

I was hoping this thread was about banning cops from using these devices.

Much better to be shot, I'm sure.

Not at all. There can be, and often are, severe consequences if a police officer goes off half-cocked and shoots someone with a gun.

All this "less-than lethal" and "non-lethal" talk has resulted in good knows how many instances of people being electrocuted for "offenses" like "not STFU when told too".

Electrocuted? The cops are plugging extension cords into their Tasers now before using them? Must make it a bit difficult to patrol dragging those around.... or maybe you're being just a *bit*

I don't understand why you would use that limited definition of electrocution or the being a *bit* comment.

I do understand that more and more deaths and serious injuries are being reported as a result of their use. I do know that if I was attacked with one I would be in fear for my life and rightfully so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taser_safety_issues#Deaths_and_injuries_related_to_Taser_use

[mnealtx 0]

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Where are Tasers touted as 'non-lethal' outside of the press?

I believe the term used is "less-than lethal" and that term is used by the jack ass cops quick to taze the shit out of somebody for "non-compliance".

I was hoping this thread was about banning cops from using these devices.

Much better to be shot, I'm sure.

Not at all. There can be, and often are, severe consequences if a police officer goes off half-cocked and shoots someone with a gun.

All this "less-than lethal" and "non-lethal" talk has resulted in good knows how many instances of people being electrocuted for "offenses" like "not STFU when told too".

Electrocuted? The cops are plugging extension cords into their Tasers now before using them? Must make it a bit difficult to patrol dragging those around.... or maybe you're being just a *bit*

I don't understand why you would use that limited definition of electrocution

Because it's the image that goes through people's mind when they see the word 'electrocuted'? I just connected it (see what I did there? ) to the Taser.

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or the being a *bit* comment.

Sorry, had a browser problem - that should have been "a *bit* hyperbolic".

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I do understand that more and more deaths and serious injuries are being reported as a result of their use. I do know that if I was attacked with one I would be in fear for my life and rightfully so.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taser_safety_issues#Deaths_and_injuries_related_to_Taser_use

What percentage of total uses are the injuries/deaths, and how do they compare in relation to 'normal' electrocutions?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[ManagingPrime 0]

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What percentage of total uses are the injuries/deaths, and how do they compare in relation to 'normal' electrocutions?

What's a normal electrocution? Electrocution simply means to kill with electricity. I don't even know that electrocution is listed as a cause of death in most "normal" electrocutions....probably something more like...cardiac arrest?

As far as percentages....I doubt that information is available at this time.

Better question. What if someone attacked you with one? If your attacker was charged with aggravated assault using a deadly weapon would you argue "actually the total deaths as a perctage of uses is really low...poor fellow should not be charged with such a serious crime...."? If you had the ability to defend yourself would you use deadly force?

I'm curious to know what your view is one stun guns. I personally, don't think they should be made illegal...just like I don't think guns should be illegal. However, I do think they are deadly weapons and I do think they are being abused largely because of the "less-than-lethal" perception.

[mnealtx 0]

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What percentage of total uses are the injuries/deaths, and how do they compare in relation to 'normal' electrocutions?

What's a normal electrocution?

Incidents other than your 'electrocution by Taser'.

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Better question. What if someone attacked you with one?

I'd rather be tased than shot.

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If your attacker was charged with aggravated assault using a deadly weapon would you argue "actually the total deaths as a perctage of uses is really low...poor fellow should not be charged with such a serious crime...."?

Nope.... but it seems like you would argue the exact opposite, given your posts.

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If you had the ability to defend yourself would you use deadly force?

I wouldn't be in a position to be tased by the cops in the first place, but using deadly force against one tends to get you dead in response.

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I'm curious to know what your view is one stun guns. I personally, don't think they should be made illegal...just like I don't think guns should be illegal. However, I do think they are deadly weapons and I do think they are being abused largely because of the "less-than-lethal" perception.

I think that they're an option, *IF* you have the time/ability to utilize it and the ability to escape before the attacker recovers.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[ManagingPrime 0]

Ok. I thought this might be a fun exchange...it's not and I'm in serious danger of having 3X more posts than jumps at this juncture and that kind of hurts me inside a little.

I'm done with it.

Pot meet spoon....carry on.

EDIT: FUCK. The last post put me at 3X.

[kelpdiver 2]

you're worried about 3:1?

What, you think you're pretty or something?

[AggieDave 6]

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Where are Tasers touted as 'non-lethal' outside of the press?

I believe the term used is "less-than lethal" and that term is used by the jack ass cops quick to taze the shit out of somebody for "non-compliance".

I was hoping this thread was about banning cops from using these devices.

Most agencies have a multi-level use of force continuum. Many put the taser as a device to be used when the suspect is using active aggression and is only one step below lethal force.

Have been tased and having been sprayed with OC spray. I'd rather get hit with the taser any day of the week, it hurts but when it is over it is over. OC spray tends to stay with you most of the day, when you sweat it reactivates and gets in your eyes again.

Having sprayed people with OC spray and having deployed the taser on more than one instance, I'll tell you that the taser is much more effective. Every single person I've used OC spray on I still had to fight and OC got all over me during the fight. The people I've had to use a taser on were high on PCP and it prevented further injury to them to take them into custody.

Then again, I'm sure you have much more personal experience with the taser and other less lethal options. I'm also qualified to talk to you about the stabilized beanbag round, the ASP, as well as a pepperball.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[headoverheels 291]

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Where are Tasers touted as 'non-lethal' outside of the press?

They used to be touted that way by the manufacturer, until the first couple of deaths. Then they changed it to the more accurate description. Maybe they thought they were non-lethal at the time. I made some coin shorting TASR stock back then.

The have a place but, in my opinion, they should be used when the only reasonable alternative is a firearm.

[ManagingPrime 0]

screw it, 4:1 probably wont do any more damage than 3:1 and there is always the weekend. I do like working with appeals to authority.

I have had experiences OC and and stun guns. One experience with each and I have zero desire to repeat those experiences...particularly at someone elses hands. I agree, I would take the taser over the OC anyday.

I assume you are or have affiliations with LEOs. Im not going to argue that there are policies and procedures in place for the various uses of force, well, because I fancy myself as someone with half a brain.

What I will argue is that a taser is a dangerous weapon and those policies and procedures governing the use of this particular weapon ar more likely to be broken by some because of the "less than lethal" tag.

Question: Would you be opposed to a very similar level of scrutiny applied to officer involved "tasers" as officer involved shootings? If not, why?

[AggieDave 6]

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Question: Would you be opposed to a very similar level of scrutiny applied to officer involved "tasers" as officer involved shootings? If not, why?

In most agencies any use of force, be it as simple as handcuffing with out arrest (releasing an individual) to something higher as pointing a weapon at someone is reviewed due to being a use of force. Upon review if it violated police or law then it is turned into a full investigation.

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I have had experiences OC and and stun guns. One experience with each and I have zero desire to repeat those experiences...particularly at someone elses hands. I agree, I would take the taser over the OC anyday.

Also, no one with any sort of professional experience and training calls a taser a "stun gun," those are two different type of devices and they would know the difference.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."