kallend 1,625 #301 July 2, 2012 QuoteQuote>Therefore it is a TAX Romney disagrees; you'd have to take it up with him. >You are not entitled to your own facts Is Romney? What Romeny says at this point means nothing It was argued as a tax and it passed constitutionally in the SC based on that argument It is a tax Period So Romney IS a liar according to you.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #302 July 2, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote>That lie got blown out of the water upthread Might want to tell this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTByvLtYIYA&feature=player_embedded In case anyone can't get the video, it's Romney defending the individual mandate part of Romneycare. Ok And Obama said the AHA mandate was not a tax So they both are lieing Imagine that, polititions who lie Congress says it isn't a tax. ROMNEY says it isn't a tax. Roberts says it is. He said she said. Verelli (Lead counsel for the gov't) said it was, too. "U.S. Solicitor General Donald Verrilli used the phrase “tax penalty” multiple times to describe the individual mandate’s backstop. He portrayed the fee as a penalty by design, but one that functions as a tax because it’s collected through the tax code." Good point I had forgotten that they had argued it as a tax If you fail to pay your estimated taxes on time and are assessed a PENALTY by the IRS, is that a tax? Is every $ collected by the IRS for whatever reason a tax? Take it up with the SC They say you are wrong"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #303 July 2, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuote>Therefore it is a TAX Romney disagrees; you'd have to take it up with him. >You are not entitled to your own facts Is Romney? What Romeny says at this point means nothing It was argued as a tax and it passed constitutionally in the SC based on that argument It is a tax Period So Romney IS a liar according to you. Fair enough So is Obama as I stated eariler You are lying too"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,625 #304 July 2, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote>That lie got blown out of the water upthread Might want to tell this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTByvLtYIYA&feature=player_embedded In case anyone can't get the video, it's Romney defending the individual mandate part of Romneycare. Ok And Obama said the AHA mandate was not a tax So they both are lieing Imagine that, polititions who lie Congress says it isn't a tax. ROMNEY says it isn't a tax. Roberts says it is. He said she said. Verelli (Lead counsel for the gov't) said it was, too. "U.S. Solicitor General Donald Verrilli used the phrase “tax penalty” multiple times to describe the individual mandate’s backstop. He portrayed the fee as a penalty by design, but one that functions as a tax because it’s collected through the tax code." Good point I had forgotten that they had argued it as a tax If you fail to pay your estimated taxes on time and are assessed a PENALTY by the IRS, is that a tax? Is every $ collected by the IRS for whatever reason a tax? Take it up with the SC They say you are wrong Can't answer, can you? The SC said it was constitutional under the taxing authority of the Congress, which is not the same at all.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #305 July 2, 2012 >What Romeny says at this point means nothing So what Romney says about the legal status of an act based on HIS healthcare reform is irrelevant. But what Kallend said is critical. Interesting that you think Kallend's opinions are more relevant than Romney's. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #306 July 2, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuote>That lie got blown out of the water upthread Might want to tell this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTByvLtYIYA&feature=player_embedded In case anyone can't get the video, it's Romney defending the individual mandate part of Romneycare. Ok And Obama said the AHA mandate was not a tax So they both are lieing Imagine that, polititions who lie Congress says it isn't a tax. ROMNEY says it isn't a tax. Roberts says it is. He said she said. Verelli (Lead counsel for the gov't) said it was, too. "U.S. Solicitor General Donald Verrilli used the phrase “tax penalty” multiple times to describe the individual mandate’s backstop. He portrayed the fee as a penalty by design, but one that functions as a tax because it’s collected through the tax code." Good point I had forgotten that they had argued it as a tax If you fail to pay your estimated taxes on time and are assessed a PENALTY by the IRS, is that a tax? Is every $ collected by the IRS for whatever reason a tax? Take it up with the SC They say you are wrong Can't answer, can you? The SC said it was constitutional under the taxing authority of the Congress, which is not the same at all. I did answer It passed as a tax under the authority of congress to tax If it is not, it in not constitutional acording to the SC"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #307 July 2, 2012 Quote>What Romeny says at this point means nothing So what Romney says about the legal status of an act based on HIS healthcare reform is irrelevant. But what Kallend said is critical. Interesting that you think Kallend's opinions are more relevant than Romney's. Got nothing to do with what you post He (and you) have framed the debate to get an answer that will make you feel better I guess But it is a straw man The SC said it is a tax The Obama admin argued it as being a tax So, it is a tax Romney could say corps man 15 times while he visits the 57th state and he is still better than Obama"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #308 July 2, 2012 >He (and you) have framed the debate to get an answer that will make you feel better I guess ?? I'm not looking for any answer. Unlike the GOP, I'm going to go with the Supreme Court on this one, rather than Romney. But you can go with whoever you like. Even Kallend. >Romney could say corps man 15 times while he visits the 57th state and he is >still better than Obama To you he is, and that's fine with me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #309 July 2, 2012 Quote>He (and you) have framed the debate to get an answer that will make you feel better I guess ?? I'm not looking for any answer. Unlike the GOP, I'm going to go with the Supreme Court on this one, rather than Romney. But you can go with whoever you like. Even Kallend. >Romney could say corps man 15 times while he visits the 57th state and he is >still better than Obama To you he is, and that's fine with me. I am going with the SC too And if you was not looking for an answer then why go with kallends lame attempt at going after Romeny to try and support Obama's lie? I have not heard the Romeny comment. If he said that he is wrong at best lying at worst We know for sure Obama is lying You and he straw manned the Romeny portion of this Not me"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #310 July 2, 2012 QuoteCan't answer, can you? The SC said it was constitutional under the taxing authority of the Congress, which is not the same at all. Tail : LegMike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #311 July 2, 2012 >And if you was not looking for an answer then why go with kallends lame attempt >at going after Romeny to try and support Obama's lie? ?? It's what his campaign said. If you think that paints him as a liar, then you can feel that way if you like. It's interesting to see his thinking on this, since Obamacare is based in large part on Romneycare - and he supported all the things he is now criticizing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lawrocket 3 #312 July 2, 2012 Quote>That lie got blown out of the water upthread Might want to tell this guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTByvLtYIYA&feature=player_embedded In case anyone can't get the video, it's Romney defending the individual mandate part of Romneycare. And the individual mandate done by a state does not implicate the commerce clause in the sense that it exceeds Congressional authority to regulate interstate commerce. Comparing a state doing something to the feds doing something is apples to oranges. Just like the states are pre-empted from doing some things, so too are the feds. Note: states can run afoul of the Commerce Clause if they take actions that DO have an effect of regulating interstate commerce. (The Dormant Commerce Clause). If Romney had sought an individual mandate to all persons who have ever had any commercial activities linked with Massachussetts the putting Obama out there as supporting an individual mandate on the nation will not be an effective counterargument to Obama decrying a state acting in excess of its authority. It's a very, very crucial difference that is lost in the political games. My wife is hotter than your wife. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #313 July 2, 2012 >Comparing a state doing something to the feds doing something is apples to oranges. Constitutionally - yes, since the Constitution treats states and the federal government very differently. To the individual there is almost no difference. In this respect (the mandate) it is essentially identical - you have to get health insurance or the government comes after you with a tax/fee/penalty. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rushmc 18 #314 July 2, 2012 Quote>And if you was not looking for an answer then why go with kallends lame attempt >at going after Romeny to try and support Obama's lie? ?? It's what his campaign said. If you think that paints him as a liar, then you can feel that way if you like. It's interesting to see his thinking on this, since Obamacare is based in large part on Romneycare - and he supported all the things he is now criticizing. Obama calls it evolving"America will never be destroyed from the outside, if we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." Abraham Lincoln Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skwrl 56 #315 July 2, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteThen why not just have the gov't subsidize medical insurance for those who truely can't afford it? That's what they are going to do under this plan anyway. It what the gov't always does for people who can't manage to feed themselves, put a roof over their heads etc. You could ask Mr. Etch-a Sketch Mitt Romney. His Romneycare is almost indistinguishable from ACA. That lie got blown out of the water upthread - should rightly be called "Patrickcare". Ummm, wut? First, I couldn't find the reference "upthread". But regardless, the Massachusetts health care insurance reform law passed the Mass. General Court (what we call our legislature) in 2006 and was signed by then-Governor Romney on April 12, 2006. Governor Patrick didn't even get the nomination to run as the candidate for the Democrats until September of 2006; he was elected Governor of the Commonwealth in November 2006. While I think Sal DiMasi (then the Speaker of the House) did a lot more to push it through the General Court, it's completely disingenuous (that's a polite way of saying bullshit) to give credit and/or blame to Gov. Patrick considering he wasn't in office until well after that. <-- Neutral on the ACA.Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #316 July 2, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteThen why not just have the gov't subsidize medical insurance for those who truely can't afford it? That's what they are going to do under this plan anyway. It what the gov't always does for people who can't manage to feed themselves, put a roof over their heads etc. You could ask Mr. Etch-a Sketch Mitt Romney. His Romneycare is almost indistinguishable from ACA. That lie got blown out of the water upthread - should rightly be called "Patrickcare". Ummm, wut? First, I couldn't find the reference "upthread". But regardless, the Massachusetts health care insurance reform law passed the Mass. General Court (what we call our legislature) in 2006 and was signed by then-Governor Romney on April 12, 2006. Governor Patrick didn't even get the nomination to run as the candidate for the Democrats until September of 2006; he was elected Governor of the Commonwealth in November 2006. While I think Sal DiMasi (then the Speaker of the House) did a lot more to push it through the General Court, it's completely disingenuous (that's a polite way of saying bullshit) to give credit and/or blame to Gov. Patrick considering he wasn't in office until well after that. <-- Neutral on the ACA. Sorry, it's in the "What's so wrong" thread.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,625 #317 July 2, 2012 QuoteQuoteCan't answer, can you? The SC said it was constitutional under the taxing authority of the Congress, which is not the same at all. Tail : Leg in.reuters.com/article/2012/07/02/usa-campaign-idINL2E8I2A0420120702 Etch a Sketch... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,625 #318 July 2, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteThen why not just have the gov't subsidize medical insurance for those who truely can't afford it? That's what they are going to do under this plan anyway. It what the gov't always does for people who can't manage to feed themselves, put a roof over their heads etc. You could ask Mr. Etch-a Sketch Mitt Romney. His Romneycare is almost indistinguishable from ACA. That lie got blown out of the water upthread - should rightly be called "Patrickcare". Ummm, wut? First, I couldn't find the reference "upthread". But regardless, the Massachusetts health care insurance reform law passed the Mass. General Court (what we call our legislature) in 2006 and was signed by then-Governor Romney on April 12, 2006. Governor Patrick didn't even get the nomination to run as the candidate for the Democrats until September of 2006; he was elected Governor of the Commonwealth in November 2006. While I think Sal DiMasi (then the Speaker of the House) did a lot more to push it through the General Court, it's completely disingenuous (that's a polite way of saying bullshit) to give credit and/or blame to Gov. Patrick considering he wasn't in office until well after that. <-- Neutral on the ACA. Sorry, it's in the "What's so wrong" thread. Have you been caught lying AGAIN?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,625 #319 July 2, 2012 If you fail to pay your estimated taxes on time and are assessed a PENALTY by the IRS, is that a tax?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #320 July 2, 2012 >If you fail to pay your estimated taxes on time and are assessed a PENALTY >by the IRS, is that a tax? Yep. A while back I was driving too fast and ended up with a speed tax. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #321 July 2, 2012 How many lies can you spot in 1:26? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJVMWjTQh_Y Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #322 July 2, 2012 QuoteIf you fail to pay your estimated taxes on time and are assessed a PENALTY by the IRS, is that a tax? What does that penalty go toward?Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #323 July 2, 2012 Quote>If you fail to pay your estimated taxes on time and are assessed a PENALTY >by the IRS, is that a tax? Yep. A while back I was driving too fast and ended up with a speed tax. Hope you paid it. Wouldn't want the IRS after you for a speeding ticket. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,625 #324 July 2, 2012 QuoteQuoteIf you fail to pay your estimated taxes on time and are assessed a PENALTY by the IRS, is that a tax? What does that penalty go toward? Beer and popcorn, I expect.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #325 July 2, 2012 >Hope you paid it. Wouldn't want the IRS after you for a speeding ticket. I doubt they would! Heck, the IRS doesn't even bug me about my property taxes, state income taxes or sales tax. (Or that speed tax.) Unless all those things aren't taxes to the GOP? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
