Working 55 hours w/o pay...how is this legal?

[charlie5 0]

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Working for 55 hours with out pay is a blessing as far as I'm concerned.

All I've had since I graduation in December is getting turned down by jobs that are unpaid. I'd be jumping up and down at finally getting the privilege to work for free.

Boys and girls welcome to the fucked up future that is America....working for free and looking forward to it!

Seriously, these people looking to be productive and work are assholes.

The feather butts bounce off ya like raindrops hitting a battle-star when they come in too fast...kinda funny to watch. - airtwardo

[scruffy 0]

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Seriously, these people looking to be productive and work are assholes.

That's basically what it's about.

I did sales for a few weeks and I'm floating on savings, but I'd rather work for free and do something not many people can do and I can take pride in it than sell out and do something just to get a paycheck.

Peace, love and hoppiness

[shah269 0]

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Seriously, these people looking to be productive and work are assholes.

That's basically what it's about.

I did sales for a few weeks and I'm floating on savings, but I'd rather work for free and do something not many people can do and I can take pride in it than sell out and do something just to get a paycheck.

You do know working for a FOR PROFIT company for free is against the law.

See here is how it works, you provide a good or service which enables the company to make a profit.
They are not taxed on the good or service they obtian from you and thus incease their bottom line.

Basic tax fraud.

Why do you think moon shine is a crime?

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[Andy9o8 0]

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Why do you think moon shine is a crime?

Ever tasted it?
It's a crime.

[shah269 0]

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Why do you think moon shine is a crime?

Ever tasted it?
It's a crime.

When done right....it's good!
Ever make it using pressed apples?
Not that I have but just saying it's very good stuff...or so i hear!

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[popsjumper 2]

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You do know working for a FOR PROFIT company for free is against the law.

You do know that you are talking through emotions and not through knowledge, right? The knowledge has already been passed on to you in a previous thread. Maybe you missed it.

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Why do you think moon shine is a crime?

Moonshine is not a crime...except in the context as Andy908 mentioned it.


Oh, maybe you meant making it, selling it and distributing it in violation of federal, state or local laws? Sorta like meth?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[billvon 2,400]

>You do know working for a FOR PROFIT company for free is against the law.

So let's use a skydiving example:

A DZO comes to you and says "hey Shah, I want to get some visibility for my DZ. So I'm going to let you and your friends jump for free, and I'll have you land in this big field close to town. It will make people curious and I might get more business. I'll even loan you some rigs if you need em."

What would your response be?

1) "Hell yes I'm up for free jumps!"

2) "Not on your life! It's illegal for me to work for free. You're a fraud and I'm going to report you."

[popsjumper 2]

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>You do know working for a FOR PROFIT company for free is against the law.

So let's use a skydiving example:

A DZO comes to you and says "hey Shah, I want to get some visibility for my DZ. So I'm going to let you and your friends jump for free, and I'll have you land in this big field close to town. It will make people curious and I might get more business. I'll even loan you some rigs if you need em."

What would your response be?

1) "Hell yes I'm up for free jumps!"

2) "Not on your life! It's illegal for me to work for free. You're a fraud and I'm going to report you."

How about something even simpler?

A: How about if you agree to do XYZ?
B: Sure!

sometime later:
B: You're a idiot for letting me continue to do this!

Well, on second thought, B may just be right.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[shah269 0]

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>You do know working for a FOR PROFIT company for free is against the law.

So let's use a skydiving example:

A DZO comes to you and says "hey Shah, I want to get some visibility for my DZ. So I'm going to let you and your friends jump for free, and I'll have you land in this big field close to town. It will make people curious and I might get more business. I'll even loan you some rigs if you need em."

What would your response be?

1) "Hell yes I'm up for free jumps!"

2) "Not on your life! It's illegal for me to work for free. You're a fraud and I'm going to report you."

that my good friend would be our grey market
AKA barter system. I trade you services for services?
Very common very accepted though the IRS is not a big fan of it.

You are trading "visibility" for "jump"
You would pay for that jump but he is offering it to you for free.
He is spending time and money on you to gain "visibility"
BARTER

Now if he were to say
"Bill, how about you come over and you can pack 50 parachutes per day, and in the evenings pack another 5 or so reserves and if you do a good enough job in a few months I MAY hire you as our rigger."

The verbal agreement is thus
You will work for "I may hire you"
Mean while your employer is charging customers full price for the 50 pack jobs and the reserve repacks. His profit margin is well...huge since his cost of labor is $0. Good for him. Bad for you and really bad for the IRS.

Now you can argue, only a sucker would work for free......oh really? In a good economy with full employment a sucker would work for free. But with the unofficial unemployment rate just north of 15% people are trying to find new and innovative ways to maybe stand out in a crowd. Thus the DZO is in a way black mailing you with hope that you may get a job with him if you did a really really really really good job. Which let's be honest...he won't do.
After all why pay for anything you can get for free?
And don't worry if you quit, he'll just find another sap who is willing to work for free under the "unpaid internship" clause. All the while the IRS will collect less and less money and our nation will go to shit while the owner of industry will make more and more money.

I await a very well thought out rebuttal.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[mnealtx 0]

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You are trading "visibility" for "jump"

And the intern is trading their time to get on-the-job training.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[shah269 0]

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You are trading "visibility" for "jump"

And the intern is trading their time to get on-the-job training.

Yeah oooookkkkk......but that's a part of hiring someone. Like it or not it is. Well it was.
But in todays economy?
Well let me put it this way, on average, major organizations made a extra 16% in profit than they made last year.
Now go and google how your real income did.

But back to your point, you would pay for the jump. Would you pay for job training? Yes it's called an education. And these people paid for it already.
So what are they getting in return?
False hope?

Sorry i call BS! Some one call the IRS on these folks and lets lock them up for what they are doing!

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[mnealtx 0]

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You are trading "visibility" for "jump"

And the intern is trading their time to get on-the-job training.

Yeah oooookkkkk......but that's a part of hiring someone. Like it or not it is. Well it was.
But in todays economy?
Well let me put it this way, on average, major organizations made a extra 16% in profit than they made last year.
Now go and google how your real income did.

Immaterial to the discussion at hand.

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But back to your point, you would pay for the jump. Would you pay for job training? Yes it's called an education. And these people paid for it already.

Twaddle.

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So what are they getting in return?
False hope?

On-the-job training.

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Sorry i call BS! Some one call the IRS on these folks and lets lock them up for what they are doing!

Not illegal, regardless of you OPINION on how things should work.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[shah269 0]

Ok you pack all day and do some repacks at night for a month and maybe the DZO will give you a gig!
No really all you! Have fun! Let me know how that works out for you!

Aint nothing better than free labor!


And if that's what you want for the future of the US well then hey you may have it very soon.

And yes it is illigal, working for free for a for profit organization is not legal for your labor is not taxed.

Who knew, the IRS was working to keep the country civil!

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[billvon 2,400]

>You would pay for that jump but he is offering it to you for free.
>He is spending time and money on you to gain "visibility"

Very good! And interns trade their work for education and experience. BARTER.

>Bill, how about you come over and you can pack 50 parachutes per day,
>and in the evenings pack another 5 or so reserves and if you do a good
>enough job in a few months I MAY hire you as our rigger."

Probably wouldn't do it. Now if he said "how about you pack 20 reserves, do some sewing and take a class and I give you a senior rigger's ticket - and then I might hire you" that might be a good deal indeed.

>Now you can argue, only a sucker would work for free......

Agreed. But if you are paid in experience or education (or even something fun like jumps) then a smart person would likely jump on that, rather than demanding money.

[popsjumper 2]

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Ok you pack all day....

Keep trying Shah. One of these days somebody might provide the only answer you are looking for. Not likely, but maybe.

The solution is simple:
You don't want to work 55 hours for no pay?
Don't do it.
Pretty straight forward, eh?

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[shah269 0]

I agree I won't.
But I'm not desperate enough to work for free.
But as you can see many are.
And that means many large for profit companies are making money without having to pay taxes.

Now answer this, why should a major company get work for free and not pay taxes on it while you have to work for a cost and pay taxes for services rendered to you?

It's not a liberal or a conservative issue, it's a simple they have found a very nice way to get what they want at a very low cost of 0$ and you get to pay all the taxes. Now if that doesn't piss you off....well hell I have no clue what to tell you? I guess you like paying taxes? And the more you pay due to companies cheating the happier you are?

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[billvon 2,400]

>But I'm not desperate enough to work for free.
>But as you can see many are.

Yep. There are people out there who work for free and get no benefits from that work. They are generally not the sharpest tools in the shed. However, I fully support the right of said people to decide to work however they want. Heck, if they want to work for me - I'm happy to have them.

>Now answer this, why should a major company get work for free and not
>pay taxes on it while you have to work for a cost and pay taxes for
>services rendered to you?

Same reason they can get work by paying someone millions. It's their money and their company.

>I guess you like paying taxes?

If someone gave you some free jumps - would you send the sales tax to the government for the equivalent value of the jumps?

[shah269 0]

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If someone gave you some free jumps

Sorry smat ass that's a gift.
If they gave me jups for hopes that I would do soemthing for them...then yeah they should call the IRS on my ass.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[billvon 2,400]

>If they gave me jups for hopes that I would do soemthing for them...then
>yeah they should call the IRS on my ass.

So in my example of the DZO giving you free jumps in hopes of getting some advertising - who should call the IRS on your ass? The DZO?

[shah269 0]

Really? Really?
I mean really?
Forget about it

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[billvon 2,400]

>Really?

Yes really. You have this disconnect in your head between people being slaves and people being free to do what they want. If the DZO wants to offer you free jumps - even though those jumps might take hard work (packing) lots of time (packing, ride to altitude) and a high risk of injury or death (off-DZ jumps) that's fine. If you want to accept that's fine too, Even though a good demo jumper can get $500 a day for what you will do for free.

Why? I suspect because you like to jump and want the experience, and being able to get both for free is a pretty good deal to you. To Craig OB, or Christy, it wouldn't be.

Likewise, if a company wants to offer someone a free position - even though the work is hard and the hours long - that's fine. If someone wants to take it, that's also fine. Claiming "well the government isn't getting enough taxes somehow so it's wrong!" is asinine. The morality of something is not determined by how much taxes you can collect from it.

You seem to have this mental image of someone in a company saying "You'll work here for free, and make us millions as we defraud the government, and if you don't we'll kill your family!" Nothing like that is happening.

[shah269 0]

"You'll work here for free, and make us millions as we defraud the government, and if you don't we'll kill your hopes of ever getting a good paying job."

they are selling false hope.
hope that if they work hard enough and prove them selves they may...key word...may...one day get a job that will pay the bills.

It's ok, you won't get it.

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!

[billvon 2,400]

>they are selling false hope. hope that if they work hard enough and
>prove them selves they may...key word...may...one day get a job that
>will pay the bills.

That's true - so it's not false hope. In any case it is their decision to make, not yours.

[popsjumper 2]

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Now answer this, why should a major company get work for free and not pay taxes on it while you have to work for a cost and pay taxes for services rendered to you?

Dude, who pays the taxes on what?
-The Company pays taxes on what? Pays taxes on the work? No company pays taxes on the work their employs do.
-The profit they made because they have a turkey that works for free? Of course they account for that profit and it's figured into their tax burden.

WTF are you asking anyway?

Who pays taxes on services? Not you, nor me.

Take a blue pill and go to bed. You're not going to get the answer you are fishing for.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[shah269 0]

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That's true - so it's not false hope.

Oh what is it?

Life through good thoughts, good words, and good deeds is necessary to ensure happiness and to keep chaos at bay.

The only thing that falls from the sky is birdshit and fools!