kallend 1,648 #51 March 8, 2012 QuoteQuote>It was a choice I made for my son. Not only his health, but his future partner's health. In that case, does it make much difference if it happens at birth vs. at age 10? I have only known one man who was circumcised as an adult ( yes, a skydiver), he was left with scars from the surgery (yes, as an adult it is somewhat major), and he said it was the most painful thing he had had ever encountered. My son has no scars (physical or mental) and has never complained that it should have not been done. Nice way to rationalize your decision to mutilate your son's genitalia without his consent.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #52 March 8, 2012 relax dude, we' re arguing about penises. I'm just having a little fun with it....sheesh, so sensitive.But in all seriousness...butt out of my business and I'll butt out of yours. You don't get to choose how to raise someone else's kids. Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #53 March 8, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuote>It was a choice I made for my son. Not only his health, but his future partner's health. In that case, does it make much difference if it happens at birth vs. at age 10? I have only known one man who was circumcised as an adult ( yes, a skydiver), he was left with scars from the surgery (yes, as an adult it is somewhat major), and he said it was the most painful thing he had had ever encountered. My son has no scars (physical or mental) and has never complained that it should have not been done. Nice way to rationalize your decision to mutilate your son's genitalia without his consent. Ya...coming from somebody that supports a mother killing her child without it's consent simply because it's an inconvenience...typical.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marinus 0 #54 March 8, 2012 QuoteAgree to disagree. That's why the USA is so great, we can all have our own opinions. If it reduces my child's chances of contracting certain infections? Sorry, but I'd do it. I have sat through multiple classes of infectious diseases and microbiology throughout undergrad and grad school. I feel like I understand the science behind it and for me personally, the benefits far outweigh the risks. Circumcision is somewhat effective in prevention of STD's but no way near as effective as condoms. Even the high estimates don't get a higher number than a rather disappointing 50% protection against HIV, which makes it in no way a viable alternative to condoms. The only way that it could be useful is raising the effectivity of condoms from nearly 100% to nearly 100%, and possibly preventing a very rare form of cancer, and all that it'll cost you is part of your penis and part of your sexual pleasure. I'm a safe sex zealot but that trade-off really sucks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marinus 0 #55 March 8, 2012 I was poking fun at you too, If you want you can imagine the smileys in my post. But one point is true: the supposedly negative effects of being complete are usually only experienced by those who are chopped. Which is of course a bit peculiar. Quote sheesh, so sensitive. That's probably because I still have the whole set down there. Quote But in all seriousness...butt out of my business and I'll butt out of yours. You don't get to choose how to raise someone else's kids. No, but how you raise your kids is governed by laws. In case of NL body modifications are generally only legal for people of 16 year and older. There shouldn't be a exception made for that on religious grounds in a secular nation. One law for all et al. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #56 March 8, 2012 QuoteQuoteYou're wrong. It's removal of the skin surround the clitoris, not removal of the entire glans No, you are wrong. and in many cases they remove much more. There is also a huge difference in the goal and reasoning, being mostly to prevent sexual pleasure from women. This conversation will be much easier to follow if you respond to what I actually write. Yes, there are more extreme forms of female genital mutilation, however those are not what I've referenced. A hoodectomy, aka clitorodotomy (NOT clitorodectomy) is removal of the prepuce surrounding the female glans. It is an elective procedure gaining in popularity among adult women for exactly the opposite reason you mention...its removal heightens sexual pleasure. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #57 March 8, 2012 Quote I was poking fun at you too, If you want you can imagine the smileys in my post. Quote sheesh, so sensitive. That's probably because I still have the whole set down there. Cool...you caught that one. Quote But in all seriousness...butt out of my business and I'll butt out of yours. You don't get to choose how to raise someone else's kids. No, but how you raise your kids is governed by laws. In case of NL body modifications are only legal for people of 16 year and older. There shouldn't be a exception made for that on religious grounds in a secular nation. One law for all et al. Glad I don't live there...I enjoy the freedom of religion and the right to choose when and what hygienic/cosmetic/medical procedures should be preformed on my children given the advice of my doctor. Besides, the procedure is hardly done for religious reasons here. I think that much has been stated once or twice already... btw, enjoy that cheesy smegma, eh?Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marinus 0 #58 March 8, 2012 So you wouldn't mind if I surgically removed the earlobes of my hypothetical kids as long as I called it a religious ritual or as long as I believed it might have some medical benefits? Quote btw, enjoy that cheesy smegma, eh? We gather that, make big cheese wheels from it, call it Gouda and export it to the US for LOLZ. If you want I can reveal the truth about Heineken too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #59 March 8, 2012 QuoteThis conversation will be much easier to follow if you respond to what I actually write. Yes, there are more extreme forms of female genital mutilation, however those are not what I've referenced. A hoodectomy, aka clitorodotomy (NOT clitorodectomy) is removal of the prepuce surrounding the female glans. You can find examples of every level, from the mildest to the most extreme. QuoteIt is an elective procedure gaining in popularity among adult women for exactly the opposite reason you mention...its removal heightens sexual pleasure May be, but we were talking about the procedure preformed in some African and ME countries to young girls and the reason they do that is anything BUT to heighten sexual pleasure... "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #60 March 8, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteCircumcision reduces the rates of contraction and subsequent spread of HIV, HPV, syphilis, chlamydia, and urinary tract infections. It also decreases the occurrence of some penile cancers. It should be done, however, in a sterile environment by qualified individuals. Many of the studies that have indicated such protective effects were actually secondary evaluations of studies that concluded exactly the opposite. Regardless, castration would likely have a much stronger correlation with reduced STDs, and most, if not all potential benefits of male circumsion would likely have a similar effect for females. Yet we don't approve of castrating boys, or remove the skin encasing a clitoris. If the benefits aren't realized till a person becomes sexually active, the decision can wait till then too. Blues, Dave Disagree - the female urethra does not exit the body through the clitoris. Acknowledged, but largely irrelevant. The urethra is what, an inch away? And urine is generally sterile. More importantly, if all these proponents of hacking off part of their son's willy's are worried about possible infections, why not wait till the child has bowel control to circumcise them? Perhaps because by then they'd have to explain what they're going to do? Or worry that the child will remember it? Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #61 March 8, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteIt is an elective procedure gaining in popularity among adult women for exactly the opposite reason you mention...its removal heightens sexual pleasure May be, but we were talking about the procedure preformed in some African and ME countries to young girls and the reason they do that is anything BUT to heighten sexual pleasure... What's this "we" business? You're the only one talking about that as far as I can tell. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mnealtx 0 #62 March 8, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteCircumcision reduces the rates of contraction and subsequent spread of HIV, HPV, syphilis, chlamydia, and urinary tract infections. It also decreases the occurrence of some penile cancers. It should be done, however, in a sterile environment by qualified individuals. Many of the studies that have indicated such protective effects were actually secondary evaluations of studies that concluded exactly the opposite. Regardless, castration would likely have a much stronger correlation with reduced STDs, and most, if not all potential benefits of male circumsion would likely have a similar effect for females. Yet we don't approve of castrating boys, or remove the skin encasing a clitoris. If the benefits aren't realized till a person becomes sexually active, the decision can wait till then too. Blues, Dave Disagree - the female urethra does not exit the body through the clitoris. Acknowledged, but largely irrelevant. The urethra is what, an inch away? An inch or two, yes - it's also not in the path of urine as the foreskin would be, which is why I disagreed with your equating the two. QuoteMore importantly, if all these proponents of hacking off part of their son's willy's are worried about possible infections, why not wait till the child has bowel control to circumcise them? Perhaps because by then they'd have to explain what they're going to do? Or worry that the child will remember it? Blues, Dave Your almost-point is working against your own argument. Once the child has elimination control, they can get the foreskin at least partially out of the way - the foreskin isn't fully retractable until somewhere around puberty, if I recall correctly.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites livendive 8 #63 March 8, 2012 QuoteQuote>It was a choice I made for my son. Not only his health, but his future partner's health. In that case, does it make much difference if it happens at birth vs. at age 10? I have only known one man who was circumcised as an adult ( yes, a skydiver), he was left with scars from the surgery (yes, as an adult it is somewhat major), and he said it was the most painful thing he had had ever encountered. My son has no scars (physical or mental) and has never complained that it should have not been done. It seems to me that a majority of men are fine with whatever decision their parents made. However for those who disagree with their parent's choice, the intact men have an option, the altered men do not. Also, I suspect that if you chopped an infants pinky off, his reaction would be similar. I have no reason to believe that infants experience less pain, they just can't verbalize it. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Andy9o8 0 #64 March 8, 2012 Quotethe foreskin isn't fully retractable until somewhere around puberty For some reason, this makes me think about Dino-Bots. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites livendive 8 #65 March 8, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteCircumcision reduces the rates of contraction and subsequent spread of HIV, HPV, syphilis, chlamydia, and urinary tract infections. It also decreases the occurrence of some penile cancers. It should be done, however, in a sterile environment by qualified individuals. Many of the studies that have indicated such protective effects were actually secondary evaluations of studies that concluded exactly the opposite. Regardless, castration would likely have a much stronger correlation with reduced STDs, and most, if not all potential benefits of male circumsion would likely have a similar effect for females. Yet we don't approve of castrating boys, or remove the skin encasing a clitoris. If the benefits aren't realized till a person becomes sexually active, the decision can wait till then too. Blues, Dave Disagree - the female urethra does not exit the body through the clitoris. Acknowledged, but largely irrelevant. The urethra is what, an inch away? An inch or two, yes - it's also not in the path of urine as the foreskin would be, which is why I disagreed with your equating the two. QuoteMore importantly, if all these proponents of hacking off part of their son's willy's are worried about possible infections, why not wait till the child has bowel control to circumcise them? Perhaps because by then they'd have to explain what they're going to do? Or worry that the child will remember it? Blues, Dave Your almost-point is working against your own argument. Once the child has elimination control, they can get the foreskin at least partially out of the way - the foreskin isn't fully retractable until somewhere around puberty, if I recall correctly. Perhaps I didn't clarify what I meant by bowel control. Urine is generally sterile, and regardless, the genitalia of ALL children will be in direct contact with much of the time. I'm not concerned about infections from urine. Baby poop on the other hand...that stuff goes everywhere, with no warning. It seems to me that intentionally opening the flesh a short distance away from the source, well if anything was going to cause an infection, I'd guess that could. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,435 #66 March 8, 2012 >I don't know if you have kids (I do know you like to play devil's advocate) I do indeed (now!) >but I wouldn't interfere with your medical decisions for said children. I might >disagree, but would not want to impose my beliefs on you (or your children) Definitely agreed there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites livendive 8 #67 March 8, 2012 Quote+1 It was a choice I made for my son. Not only his health, but his future partner's health. Did you also remove his appendix at birth? Because that has a much higher chance of killing him some day. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites falxori 0 #68 March 8, 2012 Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is an elective procedure gaining in popularity among adult women for exactly the opposite reason you mention...its removal heightens sexual pleasure -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- May be, but we were talking about the procedure preformed in some African and ME countries to young girls and the reason they do that is anything BUT to heighten sexual pleasure... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What's this "we" business? You're the only one talking about that as far as I can tell. Blues, Dave Why don't you start a poll and see if most people associate "female circucission" with "an elective procedure that heightens sexual pleasure" or with the one done to young girls in some places to prevent them from having any sexual pleasure. I believe you'll find that "we" is everybody but you... "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Marinus 0 #69 March 8, 2012 Why not remove all the body parts that have no obvious function. I heard humans only use 10% of their brains, and brains have the nasty tendency to cause strokes and stuff So crack the skull and scoop out all that useless fatty tissue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Coreece 190 #70 March 8, 2012 QuoteQuote+1 It was a choice I made for my son. Not only his health, but his future partner's health. Did you also remove his appendix at birth? Because that has a much higher chance of killing him some day. Blues, Dave I know, right? I'm sure the 3 hour surgery would be less invasive and more tolerable for a newborn to handle than a 10 minute snip n' clip...come on.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites livendive 8 #71 March 8, 2012 [reply Why don't you start a poll and see if most people associate "female circucission" with "an elective procedure that heightens sexual pleasure" or with the one done to young girls in some places to prevent them from having any sexual pleasure. I believe you'll find that "we" is everybody but you... I very specifically stated exactly what I'm talking about. You ignored that and told me I was actually talking about something else. I clarified that I did indeed mean exactly what I said, and provided you a link, which you again ignored and now imply that everyone else is equally incapable of reading what I actually wrote. I'm talking about removal of the skin surround a child's glans. I have very clearly NOT been talking about chopping off a clitoris or the head of a penis. If that's what yould like to discuss, why not start a thread on it? Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mnealtx 0 #62 March 8, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteCircumcision reduces the rates of contraction and subsequent spread of HIV, HPV, syphilis, chlamydia, and urinary tract infections. It also decreases the occurrence of some penile cancers. It should be done, however, in a sterile environment by qualified individuals. Many of the studies that have indicated such protective effects were actually secondary evaluations of studies that concluded exactly the opposite. Regardless, castration would likely have a much stronger correlation with reduced STDs, and most, if not all potential benefits of male circumsion would likely have a similar effect for females. Yet we don't approve of castrating boys, or remove the skin encasing a clitoris. If the benefits aren't realized till a person becomes sexually active, the decision can wait till then too. Blues, Dave Disagree - the female urethra does not exit the body through the clitoris. Acknowledged, but largely irrelevant. The urethra is what, an inch away? An inch or two, yes - it's also not in the path of urine as the foreskin would be, which is why I disagreed with your equating the two. QuoteMore importantly, if all these proponents of hacking off part of their son's willy's are worried about possible infections, why not wait till the child has bowel control to circumcise them? Perhaps because by then they'd have to explain what they're going to do? Or worry that the child will remember it? Blues, Dave Your almost-point is working against your own argument. Once the child has elimination control, they can get the foreskin at least partially out of the way - the foreskin isn't fully retractable until somewhere around puberty, if I recall correctly.Mike I love you, Shannon and Jim. POPS 9708 , SCR 14706 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #63 March 8, 2012 QuoteQuote>It was a choice I made for my son. Not only his health, but his future partner's health. In that case, does it make much difference if it happens at birth vs. at age 10? I have only known one man who was circumcised as an adult ( yes, a skydiver), he was left with scars from the surgery (yes, as an adult it is somewhat major), and he said it was the most painful thing he had had ever encountered. My son has no scars (physical or mental) and has never complained that it should have not been done. It seems to me that a majority of men are fine with whatever decision their parents made. However for those who disagree with their parent's choice, the intact men have an option, the altered men do not. Also, I suspect that if you chopped an infants pinky off, his reaction would be similar. I have no reason to believe that infants experience less pain, they just can't verbalize it. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #64 March 8, 2012 Quotethe foreskin isn't fully retractable until somewhere around puberty For some reason, this makes me think about Dino-Bots. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #65 March 8, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteCircumcision reduces the rates of contraction and subsequent spread of HIV, HPV, syphilis, chlamydia, and urinary tract infections. It also decreases the occurrence of some penile cancers. It should be done, however, in a sterile environment by qualified individuals. Many of the studies that have indicated such protective effects were actually secondary evaluations of studies that concluded exactly the opposite. Regardless, castration would likely have a much stronger correlation with reduced STDs, and most, if not all potential benefits of male circumsion would likely have a similar effect for females. Yet we don't approve of castrating boys, or remove the skin encasing a clitoris. If the benefits aren't realized till a person becomes sexually active, the decision can wait till then too. Blues, Dave Disagree - the female urethra does not exit the body through the clitoris. Acknowledged, but largely irrelevant. The urethra is what, an inch away? An inch or two, yes - it's also not in the path of urine as the foreskin would be, which is why I disagreed with your equating the two. QuoteMore importantly, if all these proponents of hacking off part of their son's willy's are worried about possible infections, why not wait till the child has bowel control to circumcise them? Perhaps because by then they'd have to explain what they're going to do? Or worry that the child will remember it? Blues, Dave Your almost-point is working against your own argument. Once the child has elimination control, they can get the foreskin at least partially out of the way - the foreskin isn't fully retractable until somewhere around puberty, if I recall correctly. Perhaps I didn't clarify what I meant by bowel control. Urine is generally sterile, and regardless, the genitalia of ALL children will be in direct contact with much of the time. I'm not concerned about infections from urine. Baby poop on the other hand...that stuff goes everywhere, with no warning. It seems to me that intentionally opening the flesh a short distance away from the source, well if anything was going to cause an infection, I'd guess that could. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #66 March 8, 2012 >I don't know if you have kids (I do know you like to play devil's advocate) I do indeed (now!) >but I wouldn't interfere with your medical decisions for said children. I might >disagree, but would not want to impose my beliefs on you (or your children) Definitely agreed there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #67 March 8, 2012 Quote+1 It was a choice I made for my son. Not only his health, but his future partner's health. Did you also remove his appendix at birth? Because that has a much higher chance of killing him some day. Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
falxori 0 #68 March 8, 2012 Quote -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- In Reply To -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- It is an elective procedure gaining in popularity among adult women for exactly the opposite reason you mention...its removal heightens sexual pleasure -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- May be, but we were talking about the procedure preformed in some African and ME countries to young girls and the reason they do that is anything BUT to heighten sexual pleasure... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What's this "we" business? You're the only one talking about that as far as I can tell. Blues, Dave Why don't you start a poll and see if most people associate "female circucission" with "an elective procedure that heightens sexual pleasure" or with the one done to young girls in some places to prevent them from having any sexual pleasure. I believe you'll find that "we" is everybody but you... "Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marinus 0 #69 March 8, 2012 Why not remove all the body parts that have no obvious function. I heard humans only use 10% of their brains, and brains have the nasty tendency to cause strokes and stuff So crack the skull and scoop out all that useless fatty tissue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #70 March 8, 2012 QuoteQuote+1 It was a choice I made for my son. Not only his health, but his future partner's health. Did you also remove his appendix at birth? Because that has a much higher chance of killing him some day. Blues, Dave I know, right? I'm sure the 3 hour surgery would be less invasive and more tolerable for a newborn to handle than a 10 minute snip n' clip...come on.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #71 March 8, 2012 [reply Why don't you start a poll and see if most people associate "female circucission" with "an elective procedure that heightens sexual pleasure" or with the one done to young girls in some places to prevent them from having any sexual pleasure. I believe you'll find that "we" is everybody but you... I very specifically stated exactly what I'm talking about. You ignored that and told me I was actually talking about something else. I clarified that I did indeed mean exactly what I said, and provided you a link, which you again ignored and now imply that everyone else is equally incapable of reading what I actually wrote. I'm talking about removal of the skin surround a child's glans. I have very clearly NOT been talking about chopping off a clitoris or the head of a penis. If that's what yould like to discuss, why not start a thread on it? Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marinus 0 #72 March 8, 2012 QuoteWhy don't you start a poll and see if most people associate "female circucission" with "an elective procedure that heightens sexual pleasure" or with the one done to young girls in some places to prevent them from having any sexual pleasure. I believe you'll find that "we" is everybody but you... What the majority thinks isn't necessarily the truth of course. Actually the majority often have really stupid opinions about reality. I expect a majority of people to vote for "low temperatures" when asked what the cause of common cold is. Argumentum ad populum is a common fallacy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
livendive 8 #73 March 8, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuote+1 It was a choice I made for my son. Not only his health, but his future partner's health. Did you also remove his appendix at birth? Because that has a much higher chance of killing him some day. Blues, Dave I know, right? I'm sure the 3 hour surgery would be less invasive and more tolerable for a newborn to handle than a 10 minute snip n' clip...come on. I'm sure calling it a 10 minute snip and clip makes it sound much more pleasant than, you know, amputating part of his penis, but that doesn't make it reduce his risk of death more than a preventative appendectomy would. If risk management is what you're after, why start with his willy when other things are far more likely to kill him. I think the whole "its for his health" thing is just rationalization for a decision already made on the basis of other factors. Edit to add: Do you suppose the parents of the boy discussed in the original post of this thread thought it would be more hygienic and healthier than leaving it in its natural state? Blues, Dave"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!" (drink Mountain Dew) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coreece 190 #74 March 8, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteQuote+1 It was a choice I made for my son. Not only his health, but his future partner's health. Did you also remove his appendix at birth? Because that has a much higher chance of killing him some day. Blues, Dave I know, right? I'm sure the 3 hour surgery would be less invasive and more tolerable for a newborn to handle than a 10 minute snip n' clip...come on. I'm sure calling it a 10 minute snip and clip makes it sound much more pleasant than, you know, amputating part of his penis, but that doesn't make it reduce his risk of death more than a preventative appendectomy would. How in LaLa Land is a 3 hour surgery to remove internal organs even remotely comparable to a 10 minute procedure to remove some excess skin? QuoteIf risk management is what you're after, why start with his willy when other things are far more likely to kill him. Are you a doctor? Are you aware of the health risks of preforming seriously invasive surgeries on newborn infants that can last for an extended period? QuoteI think the whole "its for his health" thing is just rationalization for a decision already made on the basis of other factors. Think all you want, deny all you want...it doesn't matter. It's none of your business.Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,435 #75 March 8, 2012 >I'm sure the 3 hour surgery would be less invasive and more tolerable for a newborn >to handle than a 10 minute snip n' clip...come on. Yep! Probably be even faster to snip that ol' tube at the same time. And that will _definitely_ reduce the odds of him having legal problems later. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
