Baby dies after ritual circumcission

[kallend 1,822]

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Circumcision reduces the rates of contraction and subsequent spread of HIV, HPV, syphilis, chlamydia, and urinary tract infections. It also decreases the occurrence of some penile cancers.

It should be done, however, in a sterile environment by qualified individuals.

I don't think involuntary mutilating surgery on someone too young to object for the POSSIBLE benefit of others many years later is ever appropriate.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[kallend 1,822]

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The fact is that uncircumcised penises can harbor more potentially dangerous bacteria. Using just one example, women have significantly higher chances (P= 0.001) of contracting bacterial vaginosis from contact with uncircumcised men than circumcised ones (Gray et al, 2009).

Large meta-analyses also show significant decreases in HIV infection in men in sub-Saharan Africa in circumcised men compared to uncircumcised men.

I don't think many folks from sub Saharan Africa read this site.

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The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[TiaDanger 0]

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Circumcision reduces the rates of contraction and subsequent spread of HIV, HPV, syphilis, chlamydia, and urinary tract infections. It also decreases the occurrence of some penile cancers.

It should be done, however, in a sterile environment by qualified individuals.

I don't think involuntary mutilating surgery on someone too young to object for the POSSIBLE benefit of others many years later is ever appropriate.

Agree to disagree. That's why the USA is so great, we can all have our own opinions. If it reduces my child's chances of contracting certain infections? Sorry, but I'd do it. I have sat through multiple classes of infectious diseases and microbiology throughout undergrad and grad school. I feel like I understand the science behind it and for me personally, the benefits far outweigh the risks.

And for the record: the appropriate ranking of cool modes of transportation is jet pack, hover board, transporter, Batmobile, and THEN giant ant.
D.S. #8.8

[oldwomanc6 38]

+1

It was a choice I made for my son. Not only his health, but his future partner's health.

lisa
WSCR 594
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CBDB 9

[TiaDanger 0]

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The fact is that uncircumcised penises can harbor more potentially dangerous bacteria. Using just one example, women have significantly higher chances (P= 0.001) of contracting bacterial vaginosis from contact with uncircumcised men than circumcised ones (Gray et al, 2009).

Large meta-analyses also show significant decreases in HIV infection in men in sub-Saharan Africa in circumcised men compared to uncircumcised men.

I don't think many folks from sub Saharan Africa read this site.

My source was purely to show that there was a meta-analysis done on multiple studies from one large group of people that shows reduces rates of infection. It doesn't matter if the people are from Africa, or New York, the epidemiology is the same.

And for the record: the appropriate ranking of cool modes of transportation is jet pack, hover board, transporter, Batmobile, and THEN giant ant.
D.S. #8.8

[Southern_Man 0]

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My source was purely to show that there was a meta-analysis done on multiple studies from one large group of people that shows reduces rates of infection. It doesn't matter if the people are from Africa, or New York, the epidemiology is the same.

Of course it matters where the people are from, all sorts of diseases show different characteristics in different populations.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[billvon 2,724]

>It was a choice I made for my son. Not only his health, but his future partner's health.

In that case, does it make much difference if it happens at birth vs. at age 10?

[oldwomanc6 38]

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>It was a choice I made for my son. Not only his health, but his future partner's health.

In that case, does it make much difference if it happens at birth vs. at age 10?

I have only known one man who was circumcised as an adult ( yes, a skydiver), he was left with scars from the surgery (yes, as an adult it is somewhat major), and he said it was the most painful thing he had had ever encountered.

My son has no scars (physical or mental) and has never complained that it should have not been done.

lisa
WSCR 594
FB 1023
CBDB 9

[TiaDanger 0]

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My source was purely to show that there was a meta-analysis done on multiple studies from one large group of people that shows reduces rates of infection. It doesn't matter if the people are from Africa, or New York, the epidemiology is the same.

Of course it matters where the people are from, all sorts of diseases show different characteristics in different populations.

I misspoke. What i meant was the anatomy and the method of transmission is the same regardless of location. The preputial sac harbors secretions that may contain bacteria or HIV virus that can be transmitted through sexual contact.

And for the record: the appropriate ranking of cool modes of transportation is jet pack, hover board, transporter, Batmobile, and THEN giant ant.
D.S. #8.8

[billvon 2,724]

>(yes, as an adult it is somewhat major)

It is for an infant as well. It's pretty gruesome.

>and he said it was the most painful thing he had had ever encountered.

Yep. I'd want my kid to make that kind of decision, rather than having someone make it for him. But again, that's just me.

[oldwomanc6 38]

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>(yes, as an adult it is somewhat major)

It is for an infant as well. It's pretty gruesome.

>and he said it was the most painful thing he had had ever encountered.

Yep. I'd want my kid to make that kind of decision, rather than having someone make it for him. But again, that's just me.

I certainly would not subject my ten-year old to this. Nor allow this if it was his decision. No child that age is capable of making such a decision.

And before you say there are tribes wherever who do this at that age, I say this (where I live) is not a deep-dark jungle where this practice is a passing -of-age rite (which transforms this from traumatic to something to brag about).

Circumcision IMO is something you do when it is a minor thing (not as gruesome as you let on) or let him wait till he is all grown up and can make the decision.

lisa
WSCR 594
FB 1023
CBDB 9

[billvon 2,724]

>Circumcision IMO is something you do when it is a minor thing (not as gruesome as
>you let on)

Have you seen one? It's definitely not a minor thing - and the fact that an infant can't vocalize their pain does not mean it's painless; it just means you don't hear about it.

>Nor allow this if it was his decision.

I find it odd that you wouldn't allow it if he chose it for himself but are OK choosing it for him. I'd rather make such decisions about my own body. But again everyone's different.

[oldwomanc6 38]

I find it odd that you wouldn't allow it if he chose it for himself but are OK choosing it for him. I'd rather make such decisions about my own body. But again everyone's different.

A ten-year old is not capable of making medical decisions for him/her self. It is my job as a parent to make those for him/her. Yours too for your own kids.

I don't know if you have kids (I do know you like to play devil's advocate ), but I wouldn't interfere with your medical decisions for said children. I might disagree, but would not want to impose my beliefs on you (or your children). I would also hope you wouldn't want to impose your beliefs on me (or mine).

No one's saying you can't do what you want with your own body.

lisa
WSCR 594
FB 1023
CBDB 9

[mnealtx 0]

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Circumcision reduces the rates of contraction and subsequent spread of HIV, HPV, syphilis, chlamydia, and urinary tract infections. It also decreases the occurrence of some penile cancers.

It should be done, however, in a sterile environment by qualified individuals.

Many of the studies that have indicated such protective effects were actually secondary evaluations of studies that concluded exactly the opposite. Regardless, castration would likely have a much stronger correlation with reduced STDs, and most, if not all potential benefits of male circumsion would likely have a similar effect for females. Yet we don't approve of castrating boys, or remove the skin encasing a clitoris. If the benefits aren't realized till a person becomes sexually active, the decision can wait till then too.

Blues,
Dave

Disagree - the female urethra does not exit the body through the clitoris.

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Coreece 190]

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Circumcision reduces the rates of contraction and subsequent spread of HIV, HPV, syphilis, chlamydia, and urinary tract infections. It also decreases the occurrence of some penile cancers.

It should be done, however, in a sterile environment by qualified individuals.

I don't think involuntary mutilating surgery on someone too young to object for the POSSIBLE benefit of others many years later is ever appropriate.

But you think aborting someone too young to object for the convenience of others IS appropriate...another example of ass backward thinking.

...but go ahead, vilify parents who chose life rather than those who chose death. It's obvious the real reason most people are objecting is because of the religious origins of the procedure.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Coreece 190]

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>It was a choice I made for my son. Not only his health, but his future partner's health.

In that case, does it make much difference if it happens at birth vs. at age 10?

Yes.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Coreece 190]

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>(yes, as an adult it is somewhat major)

It is for an infant as well. It's pretty gruesome.

>and he said it was the most painful thing he had had ever encountered.

Yep. I'd want my kid to make that kind of decision, rather than having someone make it for him. But again, that's just me.

I feel about the same way when it comes to abortion, but that's just me...call me crazy.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Coreece 190]

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>Circumcision IMO is something you do when it is a minor thing (not as gruesome as
>you let on)

Have you seen one? It's definitely not a minor thing - and the fact that an infant can't vocalize their pain does not mean it's painless; it just means you don't hear about it.

>Nor allow this if it was his decision.

I find it odd that you wouldn't allow it if he chose it for himself but are OK choosing it for him. I'd rather make such decisions about my own body. But again everyone's different.

Yep, this sounds like a good place to invoke the abortion analogy again...

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[CornishChris 5]

Personally I am anti-circumcision for many of the reasons other people have vocalised but you do tend to find, as with religion, that the belief and action flows down from parent to child. "I'm circumcised so my kids will be", kind of thing.

Here's a thought though - for all of those advocating health reasons (hygiene I will ignore as it is bogus - I am not cut and have never had hygiene issues!), surely if there were statistically significant health reasons for not having a foreskin then over the millions of years of evolution of mankind we would have slowly evolved to get rid of it, which we have not.

CJP

Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people

[mnealtx 0]

That's an interesting line of thought, but if that were the case wouldn't we have evolved away from having an appendix?

Mike
I love you, Shannon and Jim.
POPS 9708 , SCR 14706

[Coreece 190]

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for all of those advocating health reasons (hygiene I will ignore as it is bogus - I am not cut and have never had hygiene issues!)

Meh...appeal to personal experience.

besides, do you know how many infections you may have passed on?

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surely if there were statistically significant health reasons for not having a foreskin then over the millions of years of evolution of mankind we would have slowly evolved to get rid of it, which we have not.

maybe the vestigial foreskin was used to trap small insects for sustenance...like flies and other bugs that like smelly shit-like enviornments.

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Marinus 0]

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The Puerto Rican community regularly subjects infant girls to forced surgical mutilation of body parts. Here are some examples:

Ear-piercings are almost completely reversible and only result in a scar that's hardly visible, so to call that mutilation is nonsensical. Circumcision would be more comparable to cutting of the ear lobes. Other than that, I'm also no proponent of piercing the ears of non-consenting kids.

[shropshire 0]

If god hadn't want us to have Foreskins - she wouldn't have given us them....... As for me, I'm a complete prick (or so I've been told)

(.)Y(.)
Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome

[Coreece 190]

Well, I like my nice smooth, sleek penis, and the convenience of low maintenance and not having to peel back layers of musty skin in order to take a piss...I know there may be some issues with sensitivity, but I think I'm sensitive enough as it is...besides what does it really matter if you're just gonna slip on a cock sock anyway?

Your secrets are the true reflection of who you really are...

[Marinus 0]

It's funny that it's the chopped who think they're in a position to judge what it's like to have a foreskin. Also it's generally the chopped who decide for us we completes have issues with our hygiene. Personally I discard chopped opinions as irrelevant and tend to take opinions of completes serious,because they know what they talk about.

Also: European males are generally uncut, but despite that we aren't really suffering en masse from rotting cancer & STD infested penises that are a biohazard. That sort of suggests it's mostly an urban myth to defend the practice of dick chopping.